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View Diary: Free to Speak One's Mind (85 comments)

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  •  No, it's been avoided, not very neatly. (3+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    Hey338Too, AnnetteK, Tomtech
    Hidden by:
    kharma, roseeriter

    HRing the diary for allegations of mental illness, as stated.

    At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

    by serendipityisabitch on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:21:18 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  you spoke your mind (3+ / 0-)

      Save your punishment. Namaste, grasshopper

      I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

      by jbou on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:23:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  LOL! That has to be one of the funniest things (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lostinamerica, Joieau, emal

      I've seen here.  You mischaracterize the diary and then you HR the mischaracterization.

      Really, too funny.

    •  This comment is a lie and should be hidden. (3+ / 0-)

      If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

      by kharma on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 12:26:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Uprated to offset the BS HR... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        serendipityisabitch

        ... Ray clearly states that people HE believes are "trying to deceive, to manipulate, to use other people by pretending to be one thing, by talking a good game, but doing something completely different" are "sociopathic".

        Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

        by Hey338Too on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 01:30:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I agree kharma, she leads the Trolls group and (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kharma, Ray Pensador

        is looking for trouble where there is none. Please stop serendipity!

        "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

        "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

        by roseeriter on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 02:56:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unacceptable roseeriter (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hey338Too
          she leads the Trolls group
          You know better than that.

          If you think serendipity is a troll, let alone "Troll group leader" take it up with admin privately.

          We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

          by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:13:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But he trolls publically (3+ / 0-)

            If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.

            by kharma on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:15:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Click on her name she belongs to the group TROLLS (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ray Pensador, emal, kharma

              as in troll hunter group. Public information.

              Sometimes, Enough is enough, AnnetteK

              "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

              "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

              by roseeriter on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:19:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, enough is enough n/t (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Hey338Too

                We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:20:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  OK, I'm removing the HR, (0+ / 0-)

                and taking your word for it that you meant the Kos group Trolls.

                Not really buying it though.

                We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:23:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Uprating serendipity instead (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                serendipityisabitch, Hey338Too

                because the HRs on her are just as oblique.

                We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 03:26:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Doesn't seem fair. (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ray Pensador, emal, lostinamerica, kharma

                  If, as you say,

                  the HRs on her are just as oblique.

                  Then why did you uprate one and not the other?

                  It appears to be overly partisan in displaying a lack of desire to be even-handed. Some might even view it as hypocritical.

                    •  Actually, it goes beyond that. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Ray Pensador

                      I suspect the HR and comment by serendipityisabitch probably violates several categories of site rules, so the HRs it received should not be characterized as "oblique," but as justified. I believe one of those categories is that the tip jar should not have been HR'd.

                      Conversely, characterizing the unwarranted HRs on the tip jar as "oblique" would be putting it in the mildest terms. Unjustified and wrong would be more accurate.    

                  •  Ray was in no danger (0+ / 0-)

                    of being put in hiddens, he had over twenty uprates and only two HRs.

                    Serendipity had two HRs and only one uprate when I saw it.

                    I had no desire to put a tip on Rays diary. If it had been a comment that had been wrongly HRd I may have uprated it.

                    For what its worth I don't agree with the HRs on the tip jar, I just don't like the diary enough to tip it.

                    I removed an HR on a comment that called a long time poster a troll because only in the widest terms could she be called a troll, in fact she belongs to a group who I believe keeps a look out for trolls.

                    I don't care much what anyone views me as, so there's that too.

                    We should attack now when they'd least expect it #WarOnChristmas

                    by AnnetteK on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 06:21:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  In other words, I had it pegged right. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Ray Pensador

                      I was hoping for better, but, sadly, this is the type of response I was kind of expecting.

                      It doesn't matter if you don't like the diarist or the diary or the comment or commenter; or whether it was a diary or a comment; or how many uprates a diary or comment has--the simple fact is it wouldn't have cost you anything for you to uprate the diary in order to be fair and just, and you would have been doing yourself and everyone else here a favor. There was a choice: either be a part of the problem, or be a part of the solution.

                      You state you don't agree with the HRs on the tip jar, which, given your tenure here, you should know is against site policy:

                      Hide rating a tip jar is not intended to be used against anyone but the most obvious and egregious of trolls. Meteor Blades
                      I'm sure you're also familiar with the HR rules by now:
                      2. Do not troll rate someone you are actively having a fight with.
                      3. Do not give positive ratings to people having fights in the comment threads.
                      5. Troll rate a trollworthy comment, regardless of who makes it.
                      Yet, you characterized the rationale of HRing of a comment that you yourself concede wrongly HR's the tip jar of a diary, and which also violated rule two, as somehow being "oblique," using that justification as insufficient cause for the HR and cause for you to counter the HR with an uprating.

                      Leaving aside that the HR'd comment in question might also legitimately be seen as DBAD for various reasons, your words and actions in regards to this make little sense.

        •  I lead the Trolls group. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hey338Too

          Actually I'm just one of the group's admins. We don't have a leader.

          Serendipityisabitch is one of our newest members but she has already received couple of scalps.

          © Tomtech! My comments may not be used without my permission outside of the post which it is posted in..

          by Tomtech on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 07:18:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I truly have no idea what that means! n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kharma
            •  You used to talk about trolls in the abstract (0+ / 0-)

              But there is a Dailykos Trolls group which has been identifying them. We, as individual members, follow that up with actions which have always led to the banning of the trolls.

              For us trolls aren't an abstract group or individuals we feel we cannot name without causing problems for us. We hide their comments, hr their jars and inform the community as to why we believe a member is a troll.

              I don't believe that any troll we have identified as such in our private comment threads has survived more than a few days.

              It might have been advantageous for you to have learned more about the communities groups and which one dealt with trolls when you suspected that their were trolls among us. But alas I believe that bridge burned down when your posts led some of the group's members to suspect that you believed they were trolls.

              © Tomtech! My comments may not be used without my permission outside of the post which it is posted in..

              by Tomtech on Thu Mar 13, 2014 at 01:45:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  As I've committed to, I'm done pointing out (0+ / 0-)

                behavior patterns that were obviously trollish.  Having said that, my perception of what you wrote is that there may be some lack of judgement going on given the fact that in this very diary site guidelines/rules were blatantly violated (as other commenters pointed out).

                So at least this user doesn't see the Troll Group as a fair arbiter of trollish behavior.

                Therefore I reject your entire characterization of the group and mission.

                •  Test us (0+ / 0-)

                  Send us your evidence and be brief.

                  Please preface a message by citing this comment and remind the group that internal messages are confidential.

                  We deliberate and present evidence within private threads. If you begin a thread then you will be privy to all discussions in the thread.

                  Bring specific evidence and we will look at it along with the accused's entire history.

                  We never take action as a group, but each member is free to take action on their own.

                  The action normally consists of a member declaring that the condemned is a HOS (hide on sight) troll and then presenting the evidence without mentioning who brought the indictment.

                  That user, and others who consent, would then "HOSe" the troll as often as they can and comment why they are hiding the comment.

                  The autoban or a Dailykos employee finishes off the sequence by banning the accused.

                  Please send us a message with your privileged testimony and let the site operate as it has done countless times since Groups were created.

                  © Tomtech! My comments may not be used without my permission outside of the post which it is posted in..

                  by Tomtech on Thu Mar 13, 2014 at 11:28:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Really? Do you consider yourself hypocritical? (6+ / 0-)

      You're going pretty far out on a limb here to take offense at a statement that talks about how the diarist considers hypocritical behavior as being "kind of sociopathic."

      Personally, I might have just labeled it hypocrisy, and made the point that it can be harmful to society. Which amounts to exactly the same thing, anyway.

      What is really being described is not so much a person or a group of people, but a behavior pattern. And it isn't even being labeled sociopathic, but "kind of sociopathic." So, if someone describes something as "kind of crazy," are we supposed to take offense where no offense is intended and HR the person? If one were to say such a policy would be "nuts," does that merit a HR?

      The other problem with your allegation is that it presumes to read the author's mind and attribute a malicious intent to malign people here, which itself resulted in a type of slander. You compound that error with the HR by refusing to accept the author's word that it was not referring to anyone here. Essentially, you are asserting the diarist is a liar, which is not only slanderous, but HR worthy, if I'm not mistaken.

      There's being sensitive, and then there is being oversensitive. I felt your reaction fell into the latter category. The proper course here if you had a problem with the phrase was not making hasty assumptions and thinking the worst, but simply inquiring as to what was meant, and accepting the clarification given. It seems to me that in cases like this the diarist is the only existing authority as to meaning and intent, and that should be respected.

      Strange that you would parse one word out of such an innocuous diary to use as something in which to take exception. What makes it so ironic is that the diary is titled 'Free to Speak One's Mind.'

      I avoid passing out HR's for anything but the most egregious offenses, because I want people here to speak freely without worrying about the PC police. I also try to think the best of people, so I'm not going to attribute any malicious motive to you like trying to disrupt this diary out of acrimony or ideological differences. So I won't HR you. I do think you should remove your own unjust HR, however.

    •  Uncalled for. (8+ / 0-)

      First of all, it was not directed at you or any other site user; secondly of all, it's against site rules to hiderate someone with whom you're having a heated discussion. Thirdly of all, it's against site rules to bring up peoples' past history. If you don't like Ray, stay out of his diaries and write your own.

      "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

      by Eternal Hope on Wed Mar 12, 2014 at 04:11:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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