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View Diary: Gays Are Intolerant. (60 comments)

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  •  The money quotes from the article you linked (6+ / 0-)
    I am struck in listening to the opposition to same-sex marriage by the persistent denial that gender is a socially constructed role. This is a “traditional” view of marriage in the sense that it is grounded in “biology is destiny,” or specific roles assigned based on sex. It is an extremely narrow view of “marriage” based on specific roles assigned by sex, rather than marriage as an emotional and physical and social partnership between two individuals.   Most telling, it is a view that denies that heterosexual people can be in egalitarian marriages, or should be. It is a belief in “traditional” marriage as hierarchical. Not as a true partnership of equals, but as a microcosm of society with a power structure that flows from husband to wife to children.

    Therefore, opposition to marriage equality is opposition to equality.

    (snip)
    this is not just an opposition to homosexuality. This is the same opposition to single mothers. The same opposition to working mothers. And the same opposition to no-fault divorce. It is the opposition to feminists harping about men doing half the housework, and men doing it. AND it is the same source of opposition to reproductive rights.  What does same-sex marriage have to do with reproductive rights? Everything.
    There's more of course, but what is important is that, the article points out, over and over again it is not merely a religiously-based disapproval at work here; there are numerous other ways in which the "traditionalists" feel threatened. There are issues of gender roles, of reproductive rights, in other words the article ties a good many things about marriage equality and LGBT rights back to the project of feminism.
    •  I've always felt that link (4+ / 0-)

      but never been able to argue it so articulately or systematically.  

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Thu Mar 13, 2014 at 04:33:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, sfbob really nails it. (6+ / 0-)

        I was in Boston when Massachusetts was becoming the first state in the Union to legalize gay marriage, and I simply could not understand the argument that gay marriage threatened straight marriage. It was like they were saying non sequiturs. "You can't get married because trees can't sing." What?

        Then one day, listening to a radio program "debating" the issue, I really tried to understand what the problem was. How does gay marriage threaten straight marriage? If you understand that men have a certain role in a marriage, and women have a certain (submissive) role, then having two people of the same sex in a marriage means either two of the same role, or one person has to take on an "unnatural" role.

        Alternatively, if people just did what I assumed everyone did, which is bring their own strengths and weaknesses to the marriage that were not dependent on their genders, it would be no problem, but all those straight women who believe it's their job to serve their straight husbands dinner and raise the children and get paid less for equal work because that's the nature of things, well, they might look over and get jealous. And then those straight men who enjoy all those dinners and those well-raised children, they'd be out on their ears, the straight white male would be dethroned, and the natural order would crumble.

        And g*d save us from having that happen (eye roll).

        Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~John Watson

        by FriendlyNeighbor on Thu Mar 13, 2014 at 04:43:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's the idea that every marriage needs (4+ / 0-)

      to somehow adhere to this concept of what 'MARRIAGE' is. No matter who the individuals are, no matter who they were intended to be.

      There was a Sunday morning last year when someone who runs a Catholic advice column on Tumblr under the name of fatherangel got wind of the fact some heteroromantic asexuals are latching onto Mary and Joseph as examples of 'this is what we want from relationships'. This guy spent time, Sunday morning before Mass, arguing with people and saying that Mary and Joseph really wanted to have sex, they just never had the time with the great responsibility of raising Jesus. (To which I still think, they lost him for three days without noticing and they never had time to have sex if they wanted it?)

      Preserving 'traditional marriage' as an absolute 'everyone must comply or be celibate loners' was SO important to this man that even the fact he was treading violation of Catholic doctrine - and may have actually crossed the line by claiming Mary was open to having sex with anyone ever even just once, depending on who you ask! - wasn't enough to keep him from claiming even Mary and Joseph had to have been willing to comply with it. They even had to be actually hindered, he wouldn't have accepted a 'God told them not to and they obeyed' argument.

      He was so invested in preserving 'MARRIAGE' that even his own church's acknowledged easy exception to the rule must be made to COMPLY.

      •  Amazing that he found (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cassandra Waites

        even asexuality as alternative enough to be thoroughly unacceptable.  Only the clergy are ALLOWED to be celibate?  That's weird.  

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Fri Mar 14, 2014 at 08:27:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yep. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp

          I've heard of at least one person who was denied the priesthood for being asexual - you're considered Intrinsically Disordered if you don't want to engage in heterosexual intercourse.

          I also know someone who was partway to becoming a nun before finding out that no, really, naturally celibate women are not wanted.

          It's really screwed up because the DEFAULT in many Roman Catholic families when anyone comes out as asexual is 'The Lord Has Given You A Calling'. I've read Tumblr posts by someone being given hell for not becoming a nun - some of her relatives are convinced she's practically hellbound for Refusing God's Plan For Her Life - and meanwhile the church won't take her as a nun unless she lies and says she desires sex with a man!

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