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View Diary: Russian Anti-War Activists (Food Not Bombs) Kidnapped, Beaten, Threatened with Death (updated) (23 comments)

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  •  Whereas our activitists (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass, ZhenRen, pico

    are neutralized through mass surveillance, infiltration, intimidation, blackmail, ostracizing, gagging, jailing, kettling, you name it.

    Just as we have learned that there are cheaper and more effective to exert international influence other than actually taking over other nations, we have learned that we don't actually have to kill or even necessarily disappear all activists into order to neutralize their movements.

    And this is enough to give them cover with the defenders of the mainstream status quo, that they aren't actually pulling people into the streets and shooting them, because they is only definition of a Police State, after all.

    There's really effectively no difference between how Russia and the U.S. treat their dissidents. I guess you could say Russia is simply more honest, less nuanced with its tactics.

    Trust, but verify. - Reagan
    Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

    When the rich have tripled their share of the income and wealth yet again, Republicans will still blame the poor and 3rd Way Democrats will still negotiate.

    by Words In Action on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 10:52:53 AM PDT

    •  I don't know if I'd say (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pico

      Russia is more honest, since they've been alleged to have agent provocateurs involved in the Ukraine according to news reports.

      I don't think, among the global interests, there are any honest players.

      But otherwise, yes, I agree. Thanks for the comment!

      "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue." Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

      by ZhenRen on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 11:18:11 AM PDT

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    •  Eh... (6+ / 0-)
      There's really effectively no difference between how Russia and the U.S. treat their dissidents.
      I know this is a fashionable pose, but we don't have a tradition of assassinating journalists or sending them to the asylum for investigating dissident material.  We don't dissolve entire media entities for failing to tow the government line on an issue.  We have massive, massive problems - especially with harassment, abuse, and illegal police action against organized protesters - but to say there's effectively no difference to entirely misunderstand what it means to be a dissident in Russia.

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 11:32:41 AM PDT

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      •  Huh? Record numbers of journalists have (0+ / 0-)

        been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, particularly those un-embedded. Pretty much anyone straying from the green zone POV, if you know what I mean.

        Trust, but verify. - Reagan
        Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

        When the rich have tripled their share of the income and wealth yet again, Republicans will still blame the poor and 3rd Way Democrats will still negotiate.

        by Words In Action on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 01:38:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  On the other hand (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZhenRen

      I do agree that people like to point and yell "Russia!" as a way of ignoring our own problems, so I understand the impetus to bring it home.

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 11:39:06 AM PDT

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    •  I'm not sure if WIA (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic, tikkun, wu ming

      saw my update, wherein I explain what I thought had been understood, but apparently had not: We should be able to view all of these interests objectively, rather than take sides as if there is a gun to our heads to choose which state to support.

      I find it ironic that the American left (of which I am a part) objects to the "lessor of evils" choices at the American ballot box (a view of which I am in agreement) but take exactly the same approach (however badly wrought) with the Ukrainian situation.

      Americans know more about the shenanigans of the US, so they assume Russia is better. Also, I've seen some evidence here on dkos in comments that some actually believed Russia was socialist (and still reflects some of this approach) when in fact, in the anarcho-socialist view Lenin set socialism back for decades with the socialism-destroying authoritarianism.

      Russia has no underlying remnant of "support for common people", in fact it never really had.

      "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue." Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

      by ZhenRen on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 12:14:10 PM PDT

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      •  Did I say (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ZhenRen

        Russia was better?

        Hmm. Missed that.

        I thought I said something to the effect of neither being qualitatively better.

        I'll put a finer point on it: the U.S. has no moral authority to speak of much of anything concerning pretty much anything involving overt or covert military / national security tactics and strategies. That was clear under Bush. Obama and his supporters have set it in stone.

        Trust, but verify. - Reagan
        Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

        When the rich have tripled their share of the income and wealth yet again, Republicans will still blame the poor and 3rd Way Democrats will still negotiate.

        by Words In Action on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 01:43:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I agree, which I think was clear (0+ / 0-)

          by my statement. Your other comment had the nuance of Russia being more honest. I don't think that's true, but I respect and agreed with your over all comment enough to rec it.

          Thanks for stopping by.

          "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue." Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

          by ZhenRen on Sat Mar 15, 2014 at 02:46:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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