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View Diary: President Obama imposes 'most comprehensive' sanctions on Russia since the Cold War ended (142 comments)

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  •  Bill Kristol has done so: (19+ / 0-)
    It was a mistake not to use the threat of military action against Russia, Kristol argued. He said Americans were "too quick to proclaim our own helplessness."
    That's on "Morning Joe," March 4.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 12:06:15 PM PDT

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    •  That's not quite the same thing. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Claudius Bombarnac

      Personally, I'm not big on the bluff either since I saw no reason for Russia to believe it.

      •  When one of the signators of every key... (8+ / 0-)

        ...PNAC document except its charter—a fellow who has for more than a decade been leading propagandist for the kind of world John Bolton wants—says such things, even if he doesn't say attack now!, that speaks loud enough, imo.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 01:32:36 PM PDT

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        •  Bolton certainly advocates for a harder line to be (7+ / 0-)

          taken against Russia and damn the consequences. "Peace through strength" is his mantra. To Bolton, negotiations without a gun to the head is a sign of weakness. In his world fear is the only thing that gains respect for nations.

          His response to Kerry's talks with Sergei Lavrov; it was like “sending a cupcake to negotiate with a steak knife”.

          Imagine the kind of world we would be now living in if Bolton had any real power.

          •  Putin seems to live in Bolton's world (0+ / 0-)

            How do you propose to deal with Putin when Putin apparently considers any attempt by Obama to negotiate without putting a gun to Putin's head to be a sign of weakness?  In his world, fear is the only thing that makes him respect any other nation.

            His response to Kerry's talks with Sergei Lavrov; it was like “sending a cupcake to negotiate with a steak knife”.
            Can you explain why that description is inaccurate, based on the results of the negotiation?
            Imagine the kind of world we would be now living in if Bolton had any real power.
            Well, most likely Putin would not have tried this adventurism.  If you look at how he moved in in slow motion he seemed very obviously to be testing to see if there would be a robust enough response to force him to back down and then went all in when there was not.
            •  You underestimate the realpolitik of Putin (0+ / 0-)

              He understands America more than America understands him.

              •  Right... so he's using force because he correctly (0+ / 0-)

                predicted that the US would not respond with force.

                That's my whole point.

                •  What force? I don't see hundreds of thugs in the (0+ / 0-)

                  street throwing Molotov cocktails to change their government. Over 83% of the Crimean's voted 95% in favorof joining Russia.

                  Putin had the full support of the Crimean people behind him. His popularity in Russia also has soared to over 71%. Compare that to Obama's at 48%.

                  he's using force
                  Care to give a link showing Putin used force to coerce the vote in Crimea? Putin used strength.
                  predicted that the US would not respond with force
                  Every world leader could have surmised that. If Obama tried to use military force to prevent Crimea from breaking away from the Ukraine, he would have very few nations backing him.

                  Obama's sanctions are only an attempt to save face. They are so watered down as to be almost laughable. Many of the people on the list had no direct connections with the Crimean situation and had few, if any, assets abroad.

                  http://www.moonofalabama.org/...

                  Here is Kerry now suddenly "urging Russia" to accept the conditions Russia had demanded and which Kerry never mentioned before:

                     Secretary of State John Kerry called on Moscow to return its troops in Crimea to their bases, pull back forces from the Ukraine border, halt incitement in eastern Ukraine and support the political reforms in Ukraine that would protect ethnic Russians, Russian speakers and others in the former Soviet Republic that Russia says it is concerned about.

                      In a phone call with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, their second since unsuccessful face-to-face talks on Friday in London, Kerry urged Russia "to support efforts by Ukrainians across the spectrum to address power sharing and decentralization through a constitutional reform process that is broadly inclusive and protects the rights of minorities," the State Department said.

                  Obama has given up. His empty threats had now worked and he now has largely accepted the Russian conditions for the way out of the crisis.

                  The U.S. plot to snatch the Ukraine from Russia and to integrate it into NATO and the EU seems to have failed. Russia taking Crimea and having 93% of the voters there agree to join Russia has made the main objective of the U.S. plans, to kick the Russians out of Sevastopol and thereby out of the Middle East, impossible.

                  The Russian (non public) threat to also immediately take the eastern and southern provinces from the Ukraine has pushed the U.S. into agreeing to the Russian conditions mentioned above. The only alternative to that would be a military confrontation which the U.S. and Europeans are not willing to risk. Despite the anti-Russian campaign in the media a majority of U.S. people as well as EU folks are against any such confrontation. In the end the U.S. never held the cards it needed to win this game.

                  •  5 Ruble Gang? (0+ / 0-)
                    Over 83% of the Crimean's voted 95% in favorof joining Russia.
                    Who counted the votes?  Claims like this are laughable.
                    If Obama tried to use military force to prevent Crimea from breaking away from the Ukraine, he would have very few nations backing him.
                    We would have had who we needed - Poland, probably Germany, and probably the Baltic nations if we placed troops in them to convince them that they would be protected if Russia attacked them.

                    Putin moved in slowly precisely because he could not predict how heavily the US would respond and he wanted to retain the ability to pull back.

                    Obama's sanctions are only an attempt to save face. They are so watered down as to be almost laughable. Many of the people on the list had no direct connections with the Crimean situation and had few, if any, assets abroad.
                    Well, there we agree.
                    The U.S. plot to snatch the Ukraine from Russia and to integrate it into NATO and the EU seems to have failed.
                    And here you show your true colors.

                    Ukraine is not Russia's.  It is an independent nation with the right to ally with the EU, Russia, or if its allies agree, with both.

        •  Victoria Nuland's husband, Robert Kagan... (6+ / 0-)

          ...is, along with Kristol, a co-founder of PNAC.  Ukraine seems to me to be right out of the PNAC playbook.

          After all, Victoria Nuland was principal deputy foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.

          The more things change (you can believe in), the more things...  

          "The only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing." Hannah Arendt

          by dharmasyd on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 02:01:26 PM PDT

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    •  We should not be so quick to reject... (0+ / 0-)

      ...a land invasion of Russia just because Bill Kristol supports it. Don't forget that it was a key military strategy undertaken by both Napoleon and (Godwin alert!) Hitler.

      "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." -- Anatole France

      by terremoto on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 03:48:00 PM PDT

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