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  •  Racism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    21st century Russian fascism is not racist. It is homophobic.

    •  So (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, koNko

      Has the new Ukranian government passed a law legalizing same sex marriage yet?  Wasn't that what all the rioting in Kiev was about?

      This aggression will not stand, man.

      by kaleidescope on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 11:31:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They're opposed to same-sex marriage, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon, Spit, koNko

        but their deal with the EU was contingent on, among other things, passing LGBT anti-discrimination laws.  So actually, yeah, it has been in play: there were pro-LGBT rallies at Euromaidan, as well.

        That being said, I think Putin's prosecution of Martsinkevich has been really telling on this point.  Martsinkevich is the founder of those online videos where you "hunt" gay men and torture them for fun.  He's been prosecuted three times: each time under "inciting ethnic violence".  This last video of his, the one that got him extradited from Cuba, was a gay man - but an Iraqi - so he's been prosecuted under the ethnic law.  No justice whatsoever for his gay victims.  Firefly isn't wrong about the way this is proceeding in Russia.

        Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

        by pico on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 11:37:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  well (0+ / 0-)

      you should check facts before trusting US media on plight of Russian gays, in US from 2012 more than 4000 homophobic crimes were registered, in Russia just 40.

      Of course it's also indicator that gays in Russia probably don't report minor abuses (like Baldwin anti-gay slur) but generally picture is not worrysome as US media tried to present.

      So-called anti-gay propaganda law among children so far produced 3 fines of $115 in one year.  (all fined actually broke law consciously hoping for Western grants).

      •  Where are you getting this information from? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon, Spit, koNko

        You know there is no legal category for homophobic assault in Russia, right?  Nearly all of the cases are registered as "hooliganism", and LGBT activists (particularly in St. Petersburg) have fought to get them designated as homophobic attacks to draw attention to the almost undocumented level of violence - and they've usually lost these cases.  For obvious reasons most victims refuse to go public because of the effective outing.  

        The gay propaganda law, like most laws in Russia, has been used exactly the way it was intended - to disrupt LGBT organizations, to shut down events, to detain suspects, to demand bribes, etc.

        Российская ЛГБТ-Сеть has been documenting all this in great detail, so I'm curious where you're getting this information from.

        Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

        by pico on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 11:46:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  quote (0+ / 0-)

          from RT

          Official statistics show 12 homophobic attacks in Russia last year, though activists at Moscow’s sociological NGO Sova Center says such numbers are almost meaningless, as assaults are rarely reported, and almost never recorded as hate crime incidents.
          Official statistics of homophobic crimes exists however include mostly rapes, murders etc, not petty insults.
          Sova is respectable NGO documenting racist & other hate crimes in Russia but they should make better than empty claim.

          There were few horrific crimes for example sadistic torture by police in Tatar republic in similar fashion to Tornovsky murder but there were no indicators victims were gays or even mistakenly thought as gays.

          •  Yeah, you're quoting RT on this. Oh, lord. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, Spit, Richard Lyon

            Sova's not making an empty claim.  Early last year two assault cases were challenged in St. Petersburg to be refiled as homophobic attacks, and they were denied.  This is in St. Petersburg, where there is a robust LGBT activist movement.  Project that back against: the other cases in St. Petersburg, and then to the rest of the country.  And then to all the people who refuse to report it at all, because of the effective outing.  Sova is spot-on on this issue, and it tracks with my own experiences in Russia, as well.

            (O/T for people interested in Russian LGBT issues: I got to meet and chat with one of the organizers of the St. Petersburg QueerFest, Ira Rodulgina, during a panel discussion on LGBT law in Eastern Europe.  She's done tremendous archival work piecing together Russia's LGBT history from the back shelves of KGB filing cabinets.  Amazing woman, and I hope to write something on her work in the near future.)

            Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

            by pico on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 12:33:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What do you think (0+ / 0-)

              about this information?

              Brian M.Heiss and the truth about Russian 'Anti-Gay Law'

              Are these figures for homophobic hate crimes in US (around 1500 in a year) concocted or not?

              •  We have a lot of anti-gay hate crimes (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT, Jim P

                I track them. I used to track them for activism, they were important statistics to be able to use. Now I just keep tracking them because it's the sort of thing you can't stop doing once you've started, easily, though I do warn that it sometimes takes me at least a six pack and sometimes a twelve pack to make it through my annual summary (at least I don't have to present it to anybody anymore, hic.)

                But I've been doing this, once, twice a year for nearly two decades.

                And there are more now than there were. And you know why?

                It's not because there were fewer when I started tracking them, back before they were even formally called hate crimes.


                •  it's very good work (0+ / 0-)

                  but Russian media don't report every homophobic crime in US and don't blame homophobic Obama for them like US media does and not only with homophobic crimes but generally -

                  for example blaming Putin for apartment blasts (which was proved in court to be work of certain Gochiyaev terror group),

                  Politkovskaya murder (she was killed on order of one Chechen criminal) etc and so on.

                  Western media work is very sloppy - first to create wrong impression of evil Putin dictator then drop any follow up work even if they disagree with court decisions.

                  Because to confront these cases they need facts, but Western journalists don't like facts they like only naked propaganda to brainwash population.

                  •  I'm done responding. (0+ / 0-)

                    In fact, the status of LGBT folks in Russia has been on my radar for much longer than it has been on the media's radar here. And you're just spouting whatever you'd like to assert, twisting things to support what you'd prefer.

                    There is no respectful response I can give you in this. Good day.

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