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View Diary: Third Way puts words in my mouth to defend Zell Miller (263 comments)

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  •  Populism doesn't have to be economic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rustypatina

    That you need to refer to "economic populism" should be proof of that.

    Populism is, at its heart, anti-elitism.  The full-spectrum populism that I want to encourage would maximize emotional fervor against economic elites by creating space for any complementary sentiment against cultural elites.  This doesn't necessarily mean appealing to "values voters".  It could, but it might not, and I advocate allowing it to grow organically and spread like wildfire, even if it ends up going in directions that make me cringe.

    •  Still not following well (0+ / 0-)

      What do you think about populism wouldn't appeal to some left-leaning districts, exactly? And what would make you cringe? I'm trying to follow but struggling to fill in some blanks that I am probably not catching due to some level of intellectual burnout.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 01:12:53 PM PDT

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      •  My point was (0+ / 0-)

        That I disagree with your idea that economic populists need to be quiet about their other views.  Maybe there are some districts where a hardcore progressive couldn't be elected.  In those places, I would look for candidates who could be the flip side of the Third Way, economic liberal populists who might not be so liberal on other issues.  I'm thinking of candidates who might resemble Bart Stupak, who was staunchly opposed to the Iraq War and voted for health care reform when push came to shove.

    •  Sorry, but as a Southerner (5+ / 0-)

      I can't take the view that it should be allowed "to grow organically and spread like wildfire, even if it ends up going in directions that make me cringe."

      Examine the history of populism in the South and you'll do more than cringe.

      Nothing human is alien to me.

      by WB Reeves on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 01:25:25 PM PDT

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      •  I understand the history of populism in the South (0+ / 0-)

        Let's just say I am not as risk-averse as some people.

      •  I don't know about that history (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        WB Reeves, puakev

        what is it? Was populism in the South intertwined with racism? That's what I'm now imagining.

        Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

        by mahakali overdrive on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 01:35:00 PM PDT

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        •  You imagine correctly (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          puakev, mahakali overdrive

          Through the actions of politicians such as Tom Watson, populism in the South became the political accessory to white supremacy, lynch law and Klan terrorism.

          Populist rhetoric was part and parcel of the cynical politics practice by vicious Racist and segregationists politicians such as Theodor Bilbo and Eugene Talmadge, reaching its apotheosis with the Presidential campaigns of George Wallace and providing the basis for GOP's Southern Strategy.

          Note; I don't oppose populist appeals per se but there is a clear danger that such appeals can degenerate into murderous demagoguery. Not a potential to be taken lightly or shrugged off.

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 01:58:13 PM PDT

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        •  Oh and instructive of the co-option of (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          puakev, mahakali overdrive

          populist appeals by white supremacist politicians is the case of "Pitchfork" Ben Tillman.

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 02:15:35 PM PDT

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          •  You don't imagine that a different (0+ / 0-)

            kind of populism--say, one where racism isn't a component--isn't possible in 2014? I disagree. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it will again, especially since different people are involved.

            "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

            by bryduck on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 03:36:18 PM PDT

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            •  I think I made it clear that I can indeed imagine (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mahakali overdrive

              that kind of populism.

              But allowing it

              "to grow organically and spread like wildfire, even if it ends up going in directions that make me cringe."
              is not the way to achieve it.

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 03:49:36 PM PDT

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              •  Since the quoted phrase (0+ / 0-)

                is pretty much a fanciful and imaginary proposed state of affairs (when has any successful US political movement behaved in such a way?), I don't believe we have to worry too much about it happening.
                The original commenter was referring to what the populists might think about social issues of the day (climate change, LGBT rights, etc.) not inherent attitudes of any members. Racists will be racists regardless of whether they are members of a movement; if they constitute a majority of the members, wouldn't they already be in charge of any organization extant anyway? It's not as if, for example, the Dem Party has been keeping racists from banding together otherwise by harboring a bunch of them in its ranks. I think a vast majority of them are already Republicans; stimulating an economic populism that could include some of them would not empower them any more than they are already, and indeed, could serve to muzzle them after they got hived off from their natural home in the R party.

                "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                by bryduck on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 04:11:42 PM PDT

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                •  Excuse me but Anthony de Jesus made it plain (0+ / 0-)

                  that he was aware of the history I was referencing and that he was nonetheless willing to take the "risk". That makes the quote cited absolutely pertinent. Particularly since the back bone of the Democratic Party in the South is the Black community. A populism that doesn't come to terms with its racist history won't be trusted or effective.

                  I think that you seriously underestimate the role that populist appeals continue to play among the rank and file of the Right and Far Right. Consequently, you don't appear aware of how these appeals interface with racism and white supremacy in the larger community.

                  Frankly, the business about movements and membership seems confused.

                  Racists and racism aren't some alien force from outside. They are an organic part of our local and  national life. They exist in every municipality and locality. They already accept some "populist" positions regarding the banks and elites, weaving them into their own racial obsessions. Any populist movement that isn't explicitly and actively anti-racist would act as a magnet for them.

                  If you think this doesn't pose a problem, I am in absolute disagreement.

                   

                  Nothing human is alien to me.

                  by WB Reeves on Thu Mar 20, 2014 at 05:39:45 PM PDT

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