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View Diary: The Rise, Persistence, and Replacement of the Roman Empire: Computer Simulation (30 comments)

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  •  Could the Level of Technology and Pace of Change (3+ / 0-)

    be a factor in comparing, say, the Ottoman's longevity vs Rome's? The Ottoman lasted thru the 19th century into WW1 facing numerous global seafaring empires, eventually steel warships, guns and bombs, radio and telephones, nation state forces and technologies inconceivable to Rome.

    Maybe the Ottoman should get a degree of difficulty multiplier to arrive at an Adjusted Longevity??

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 06:05:26 AM PDT

    •  that's a good point . . . (0+ / 0-)

      Rome dominated a world that didn't really change much for the entire 2,000 years. The same roads and legions that allowed Rome to rule in 500 BCE still allowed it to rule in 1400 CE.

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 08:53:10 AM PDT

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      •  most of the roads had failed by the Middle Ages (0+ / 0-)

        Alongside the failure of centralized authority, that's why travel and trade basically collapsed.  The routes were still traveled, but nobody had the money or the will to maintain the paved roads.

        And most of Rome's trade had taken place across the Mediterranean anyway.

        Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

        by Visceral on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 09:39:30 AM PDT

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        •  that was in the Western Empire, not the Eastern (0+ / 0-)

          The diarist makes a very good point, that the Roman Empire fell in the West (and led to the Dark Ages), but didn't fall in the East for many more centuries.

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 11:10:42 AM PDT

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    •  Absolutely (0+ / 0-)

      The Ottomans, along with the Iranian Safavids and Indian Mughals, are sometimes referred to as the Gunpowder empires. It was the then-new cannons that Ottomans used to take Constantinople in 1453. The Ottomans adopted a lot of Roman governance, and were much stronger for that. Their territorial peak was 1526-1699, the dates that they ruled Hungary. They lost ground to Austria and Russia, with other European powers meddling to make the 19th century losses independent states instead of direct annexations. But Austria and Russia themselves were like the Ottomans multi-ethnic imperial states, so that wasn't the problem.

      Neither is it the technology directly, as Ottomans were not overwhelmed by superior weaponry. But the Ottomans' post-1700 opponents were richer and more populous than they were, and brought more power to bear. Like the Republic of Venice, the Ottoman Empire was hurt by the nautical revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries, and a lot of the commercial wealth they used to get went around them.

      There's a million ways to laugh; everyone's a path.

      by Tom Lum Forest on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 03:20:41 PM PDT

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