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View Diary: Eurocrats Unprepared For Dealing With Putin (163 comments)

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  •  no (2+ / 0-)
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    Azazello, FG

    I reject that and to be blunt that approaches apologism for Russia's actions.

    Russia invaded another nation and if you think Russia is more trust worthy I am not sure we're reading the same news.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:15:37 AM PDT

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    •  Why does that make Russia less (2+ / 0-)
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      Euroliberal, Emmy

      trustworthy? Just because someone gets in a fight doesn't mean I can't trust them. Trust is about consistency of action and Russia has been pretty consistent with it's actions.

      And really, by that standard the US would be one of the least trusted countries in the world.

      If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

      by AoT on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:36:07 AM PDT

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      •  Russia's case is built on lies and misdirection (0+ / 0-)

        Der Weg ist das Ziel

        by duhban on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:39:57 AM PDT

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        •  I'm talking about their actions (0+ / 0-)

          Not what they say. Go reread Meteor Blades sig if you want to know what I think of what they say.

          If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

          by AoT on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:48:57 AM PDT

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          •  so they lie but their actions are trustworty? (0+ / 0-)

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:58:38 AM PDT

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            •  They do things they say they will (1+ / 0-)
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              duhban

              But they give lies for the justifications.

              It's what the US did with Iraq. Russia is going to continue to grab territory when these sort of situations come up. It has no right to do so, but it will continue to use the same justifications. If we get to a point where Estonia pulls out of the EU and NATO and has some sort of mass political instability al a Ukraine then I would trust Russia to pull this same shit again.

              But Russia hasn't broken any treaties yet, nor have they acted in a way that doesn't make sense. At least to me.

              More and more I think the outrage and shock is because Ukraine is in Europe and White and it's just not polite to invade those sort of folks anymore.

              If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

              by AoT on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 11:07:43 AM PDT

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              •  okay thank you I understand your position now (1+ / 0-)
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                AoT

                I will say I was just as outraged with Chechnya and Georgia.  That said I do agree that I think more people are paying attention because Ukraine is very much closer to Europe than Checnya or Georgia.

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 11:10:45 AM PDT

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      •  Same reason we lost trust over Iraq nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duhban

        "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

        by Texas Lefty on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:53:11 AM PDT

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    •  well (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, AoT, native
      I am not sure we're reading the same news.
      That is true. Sort of. I do read your news but you don't get a chance to read mine.

      On the other issue, I guess my position might seem like apologism fo Russia to you but I only reject it in the sense that what I believe or say is not out of need to "apologize" for anybody.
      In fact, if apologies are in order Russia can stand in line with a whole lot of other actors in this mess and do it themselves.
      But, I won't follow any kneejerk anti-(whatever) line of thought.

    •  Bingo ! (1+ / 0-)
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      native

      Consumers of US corporate media often exhibit symptoms of Putin Derangement Syndrome. These include the use of terms like: Hitler, Sudetenland, aggression, appeasement and the like.

      The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

      by Azazello on Fri Mar 21, 2014 at 10:59:11 AM PDT

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