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  •  Mel Brooks does a great job at lampooning everyone (13+ / 0-)

    and everything, including (even especially) Jews, and that's great for Mel Brooks.

    Yet I don't think getting outraged and constantly ridiculing religious nutjobs is effective, and it only fuels the fire and often makes us look combative and even insensitive to the beliefs of others.

    Now, I know, I know. Some of these people are trying to force their beliefs on us by force of law, and that's not cool. That we fight. However, the most effective method by far would be to simply ignore them. Especially if the media would ignore them. If the Cosmos folks want to do something constructive they should simply reply that it's Carl Sagan's series and if they don't like his point of view, make your own.

    The problem with religion is that it's deeply personal. I just got back from a Lodge meeting where we raised someone to the Third Degree, and it's got me thinking: there are men in my lodge who believe much more traditionally than I do. None are fundies--this is Maine, after all, the least religious state in the nation--but some are more traditionally Christian than I am. Me? I believe that the "Big Bang" is God, that is, the Universe is God. Nothing prevents me from joining that fraternity, or them: believing in a higher power is a prerequisite for membership, but what that is is your business alone. Technically, you could believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and join. No one asks, and no one cares.

    That's the way it should be in our society, like it is in my Fraternity. It's no mistake that many of the men who founded this country also belonged to this fraternity (though it bears noting that Jefferson did not). "Believe what you want, but we really don't care to hear about it" is a much better approach that calling constant attention to it, and that's what I got out of tonight.

    Who cares, as long as they don't "scare the horses", ie, try to legislate their beliefs.

    Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

    by commonmass on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:44:39 PM PDT

    •  I don't believe that we should be (10+ / 0-)

      combative, but respond with ridicule when they present their goofy, unsubstantiated, myth-riddled, baloney as actual facts.  

      In the age of science, "it's in the Bible" isn't proof.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:51:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The most important front in this debate is among (3+ / 0-)

        the young of the Religious Right, and the Right more generally. The Evangelical polling company Barna Group has found that 38% of young Evangelicals take their smart phones to church to fact check sermons at least some of the time. We need to provide the resources that these young people need.

        Of course, we here at dKos are one of those resources. So are all of the evidence-based science Web sites.

        I work on others, particularly on Open Educational Resources (OERs), which are digital textbook replacements under Creative Commons licenses. That means that anybody can use them at no charge, and can improve on them or translate them to other languages, as long as they publish the results under the same licenses. You can find some on biology, along with many other school subjects, at California's Free Digital Textbook Initiative, among other places. For example,

        CK-12’s Biology delivers an overview in the life sciences for high school students, relating an understanding of the history, disciplines, tools, and modern techniques of science to the study of cell biology, genetics, evolution, ecology, and human physiology. A Teacher's Edition and Biology Workbook are also available for download.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 09:30:29 PM PDT

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        •  Very interesting (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Santa Susanna Kid

          One of the main focuses of these churches is on young people.  They know they're creating the next generation of fundies so there is extensive programming to keep them in line, teach them, and, mostly, keep them in groups that the church controls so no one strays.

          Thanks for the signs of hope.

          There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

          by Puddytat on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 10:51:49 PM PDT

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    •  To quote Jefferson, (14+ / 0-)
      But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
      It's only when that neighbor tries to force those beliefs on others that it becomes a problem -- whether it's with a threat of Hell in the future or at the point of a gun threatening to send one there right now.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:54:46 PM PDT

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    •  Your last sentence (7+ / 0-)

      is so important. It is my one and only beef with these people. I am all for people believing just exactly what they believe. Worship Justin Bieber if it tickles you. The problem is that these people are out there scaring the horses in their fright wigs, ie, very much trying to legislate their beliefs. I have my faults but as though I feel I am a pretty respectful person. I also have my limits and thresholds. These people cross them daily.

      •  Back during my childhood, (5+ / 0-)

        the attitude I perceived in my community was that promotion of one's religion (outside of one's church) was considered vulgar.  I don't recall much in the way of religious conversations outside of Sunday school.  Maybe this is just because I grew up in a big city on the east coast, or because the country in the 1960s and 70s was less obsessed with religion than it is now.  The way things used to be seems much more in line with the what the Founders had in mind.  Would that we could return to that attitude.

        -5.13,-5.64; GOP thinking: A 13 year path to citizenship is too easy, and a 5 minute background check is too burdensome. -- 1audreyrenee

        by gizmo59 on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 08:21:44 PM PDT

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        •  It's not just your big city (6+ / 0-)

          on the East Coast.  It was the unwritten policy of everyone in the Midwest, too.  It was not considered polite to discuss religion outside of the church.

          There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

          by Puddytat on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 08:25:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Now, that being said, discussing religion here (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Steveningen, gizmo59, Puddytat

            is a different story. I write the equivalent of a Religion Column here much like there might be one in a newspaper. There are several other places, regular, long-standing diaries, where religion is discussed. Atheism is also discussed. (I think it would be cool to have an atheist column in the religion section of every newspaper). The one thing we don't do that some evangelicals and fundies do, however, is try to convert people.

            Asking your neighbor where they go to church is rude. Writing a diary or series about religion in what is essentially a giant, 24-hour online newspaper, is journalism.

            Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

            by commonmass on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 09:07:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Growing up in New England, it was also not (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gizmo59, Puddytat

          polite to discuss religion. In fact, the first time I was ever asked what church I attended was when my family moved to Texas. My family and I were appalled that anyone would ask that, but of course, too polite to chew them out or act offended. But it was often discussed in my immediate family (and still is) that that kind of behavior is, indeed, the height of vulgarity and the pinnacle of poor taste and a sign of VERY poor breeding.

          Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

          by commonmass on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 09:01:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Confound them with logical mirrors (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Puddytat, Santa Susanna Kid

      Make them back up their illogic with yet more illogic, until they make Lewis Carroll seem sane. Don't argue, just keep asking followup questions that reveal the black hole at the center of their ideas.

      Make THEM make their case rather than you unmake it.

      "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

      by kovie on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 09:18:35 PM PDT

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    •  Ignoring them would be excellent if (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Puddytat, Santa Susanna Kid

      the Religious Right were not actively attempting to make their views and practices law for everybody else on such matters as

      Contraception

      Abortion

      Biological science

      Marriage Equality

      Religion in schools

      Legal discrimination against LGBTs and anybody else that any church objects to

      Legal discrimination in insurance over any medical product or service that any church objects to

      combined with the fairly widespread notions that the US should be a theocracy, with only Christians of their sort in office, or a theonomy, where all law would be derived from their perverted views of the Bible.

      We do ignore the religious beliefs of all of the Christian churches and others that do not seek to impose themselves on us. We cannot ignore those who want an establishment of religion, and who want to prohibit the free exercise of other views than theirs, and who carry out those wishes in jurisdictions where state or local authorities refuse to obey the law.

      Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

      by Mokurai on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 09:20:52 PM PDT

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    •  Years ago, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Puddytat

      I played in the local Shrine Jazz band.  They needed at least half of the members to be masons to keep the rehearsal space, and asked me repeatedly to join.

      I refused every time, using Groucho's rule, but ... could not in good conscience have accepted because the very idea of the supernatural is utterly foreign to me.

      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

      by trumpeter on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:45:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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