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View Diary: Jon Stewart rips NRA for blocking Obama's surgeon general nominee (125 comments)

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  •  "Auto violence?" Why don't you simply answer the (8+ / 0-)

    ... question?

    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

    by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 10:42:01 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  ^says the man after failing to answer mine (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      We Shall Overcome

      And I'm outta here. I would say I'm giving Bob the final substantive say on the matter, but he and "substantive" had a messy breakup sometime in early 2003 and have not been on speaking terms since.

      •  So I take it you would opt to block the nominee? (11+ / 0-)

        I have to laugh at you RKBA guys and your Liberal Gun Club.

        As I have noted many times, your motto should be:

                       

                           More liberal than the NRA.
                            On everything except guns.

        "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

        by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 11:36:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So I take it you would opt to block the nominee? (3+ / 0-)

        I really have to laugh at you RKBA guys and your Liberal Gun Club.

        As I've noted many times, your slogan should be:

                            More liberal than the NRA.
                             On everything except guns.

        "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

        by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 11:39:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The opinions of 'RKBA guys' are irrelevant (0+ / 0-)

          The opinions of ten Democratic Senators (and their constituents) are not.

          Thus far your issue has cost seats & nominations in humiliating manners.
          Now that you are starting to get an idea about the cost of such policies, do you still support those policies?
          If so, at what cost are you willing to have the party pay in order to pursue these policies?

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 11:46:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Frank, you're still here? (8+ / 0-)

            "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

            by Bob Johnson on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 11:48:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  26 kids murdered in their elementary school (9+ / 0-)

            classroom - that's the cost you're willing to pay.

            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 03:31:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually. (9+ / 0-)

              Correction: It's the cost he's willing to have someone else pay.

            •  That is called 'murder' (0+ / 0-)

              Neither I nor the other 300,000,000 citizens whose liberties you are willing to take committed that act.

              Do you think that we need to have warrantless wiretaps, or is 3000 dead Americans the price you are willing to pay for reasonable search and seizure?

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:08:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "History will have to record that the greatest (5+ / 0-)

                tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people."

                http://mlkday.gov/...

                "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:11:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's unfortunate when good people are too (0+ / 0-)

                  silent when the ignorantly frightened seek to infringe on the rights & liberties of innocent Americans.

                  I agree.

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:19:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Good people are silenced by gun violence (4+ / 0-)

                    everyday in America - 80 people will die by guns, taking away every single right afforded to them in the Constitution.

                    Without life, there are no rights.

                    "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                    by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:27:42 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That is called 'murder'. (0+ / 0-)

                      Taking the rights of innocent people in response to the actions of the guilty is neither effective nor just.
                      That is the same justification given for torture, Gitmo, warrantless wiretaps and stop-and-frisk.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:32:58 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes, many women are murdered by their boyfriends/ (6+ / 0-)

                        husbands who have histories of domestic abuse and who if they had their access to guns restricted would not have been able to murder.

                        Background checks work, save lives and extend all of the rights enshrined in the U.S. constitution who are able to dodge a bullet thanks to strong gun violence prevention policies.

                        "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                        by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:41:15 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  1) B/Cs are already required of FFL dealers (0+ / 0-)

                          2) Murder happens because of power differentials and intent. That is why bare hands & knives are responsible for over twice & 6 times more murders per year respectively than rifles are.

                          But never mind that for now.
                          You want B/Cs?
                          Do so without simultaneously pushing for a gun/magazine ban.
                          Somehow people doubt assurances that one isn't seeking to ban guns while they are pushing for a gun ban.

                          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                          by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:54:50 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Imagine of those bare hands had a gun or those (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus

                            hands had gun instead of a knife - thankfully background checks prevent a lot of hands from getting a gun in them.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:57:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Then their murder victims would be.......what? (0+ / 0-)

                            More dead?

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 04:59:12 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  More murder victims - guns are more effective (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus

                            killers than hands, that's why the military has them.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:02:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Again. (0+ / 0-)

                            Bare hands are responsible for twice as many murders as rifles are.
                            Knives are responsible for six times as many murders as rifles.

                            Both knives and bare hands are used on significantly more murder victims than rifles are.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:06:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Cherry picking data and the NY and Conn, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus

                            Fed district court disagrees with you and rules public safety trumps 2A rights - you are making a moot point.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:40:05 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That isn't cherry picking. (0+ / 0-)

                            Rifles are used in significantly less murders than either bare hands or knives.

                            Fed district court disagrees with you
                            And the constituents of Morse, Giron & Hudak disagrees with you.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:42:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Proud to say, yes, I disgree with those gun (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus

                            extremists, many of which also are christianists, anti-abortion, pro-personhood, anti-marriage equality - that's some company you keep.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 06:35:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And many of which were registered Democrats. (0+ / 0-)

                            20-30% of the registered Democrats that came to vote in Giron's district (in a district that voted by Obama by 19 points).

                            You, along with anti-choice & anti-same sex marriage, seek to take rights away from others.
                            Society's support for the rights & liberties of innocent Americans has been expanding on all three of these issues for decades.
                            Enjoy spending time with your fellow political dinosaurs. You're going to be sharing that particular tar pit with them for a looooong time.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 06:48:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wishful thinking - 90% support UBC, 50-60% supprt (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            greengemini, Caittus

                            AWB/ban on high cap mags.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:10:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And gun control has less support than it did (0+ / 0-)

                            twenty years ago.

                            The poll results that matter happened in Morse, Giron & Hudak's districts & more will be held on November 4th.
                            I look forward to discussing those meaningful polls with you on November 5th.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:34:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I look forward to that as well and expect you'll (0+ / 0-)

                            stick to you're propaganda that guns have somehow become the No. 1 issue in the mind of every voter in Colorado.

                            In reality, voters in Colorado are not supporting the most ardent pro-gun candidate for governor - Brophy - because guns aren't their most important issue.

                            And the Colorado GOP is trying to keep the gun nuts out of their primary process - for obvious reasons, ie, when the gun nuts run in general elections, the GOP loses.

                            But don't let those facts get in the way of a good propaganda yarn.

                            You might also be interested in what's going on in Castle Rock, Colorado (a conservative town that went 60% for Romney in 2012), where the Colorado gun lobby is trying to take over the city council - the mayor is a card carrying member of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and has graciously invited them to his gun range to plot how to overturn Colorado's 2013 gun reform. Of course, that has prompted city residents to try to change they way their mayor is selected (currently by the city council) so they can vote him out. Also keep an eye on city council elections where the gun nuts who have infected the city's politics are facing multiple candidates who are against their pro open carry votes of just a month ago.

                            You can stick to your exaggerated gun propaganda that attempts to inflate the issue of guns over that of jobs/economy, marriage equality, pro choice, et al - but it's just that, propaganda.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:53:46 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Unintentional irony. My favorite kind. (0+ / 0-)
                            ie, when the gun nuts run in general elections, the GOP loses.

                            But don't let those facts get in the way of a good propaganda yarn.

                            Not even in Democratic districts in elections during non-election years while outspending the GOP 6-to-1.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:02:17 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yeah, Colorado Springs and Westminster (0+ / 0-)

                            - those are some "Democratic districts" you got there. Clearly you don't know Colorado ... and in an off year, stand alone, special election that restricted mail in voting 15 days before the vote - in other words, the gun lobby and the GOP gamed the vote.

                            You shouldn't delude yourself into thinking those elections were representative of the mood of the entire state. Those were the ONLY three districts out of 35 senate districts and 65 house districts where the gun lobby thought it could win - I'll do the math for you, that's 3% of the entire state that the gun lobby thought it had a chance to win recalls (and in Colorado Springs, the recall only succeeded by 400 votes or so), and in those elections turnout was 50% or less.

                            So, you're entire "theory" that advancing the pro gun agenda issue has somehow become the number 1 issue for Colorado voters is based on about .1% of voters.

                            That's beyond laughable - it's insane.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:14:59 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Voted for Obama by 19 points & had more (0+ / 0-)

                            registered Democrats than GOPers show up....where 20-30% of those registered Democrats voted for the recall.
                            .....odd how you forgot that.

                            The other two districts had Democratic Senators, up until they lost their jobs.

                            But, hey....those 'gun nuts' sure can't win elections, amirite?
                            Just keep giving reality the finger.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:21:00 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The GOPer who replaced Morse says the Aurora (0+ / 0-)

                            shooter was lucky to have a 100 round drum because it jammed ... after 65 shots - he's up for election this November. I'm looking forward to that one.

                            In the other district, the Dems still hold the seat and the GOP is trying to keep the gun nuts out of the primary process because they know if the gun nut (who also is  christianist anti-choice, anti-equality) win the primary, they will lose the general, which is exactly what happened in 2008 that allowed the Dems to take that very seat — a gun nut split the vote, which allowed the Dems to control the Senate and vote for gun reform.

                            So, yes, the gun nuts do know how to win elections and pass gun reform ... for Democrats.

                            In yet another "Colorado Gun Nut Hall of Fame" story - a GOPer state rep is withdrawing from his re-election campaign, just a month after he brought a loaded gun in a gym bag to the state capitol for a meeting with legislators and constituents about concealed carry - this "responsible gun owner" forgot about his gym bag (and the loaded "concealed" gun) after the meeting adjourned and left it behind in the room.

                            You have a warped and deluded sense of how the pro-gun agenda plays in Colorado politics based on how 0.1% of the electorate voted in off year, stand alone, special elections.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:36:25 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If only that pesky reality would bug off of you. (0+ / 0-)

                            3 incumbent Democrats lost their seats in unprecedented & humiliating fashion because you decided that you distrusted & feared your fellow Coloradans.

                            25% of the registered Democrats that showed up to the polls voted for the GOPer
                            You managed to create a 40-60 point swing in registered Democrats in the course of less than a year.
                            Hick, who was untouchable prior to this nonsense now has a race on his hands.

                            These are irrefutable facts.
                            Your willful ignorance doesn't change reality.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:28:43 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And the SPAM begins - you've already made that (0+ / 0-)

                            point - here's a refresher on the conversation we've already had on this topic:

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:18:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Once you acknowledge reality, I can cease (0+ / 0-)

                            reminding you.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:21:27 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Reality has been acknowledge, explained and (0+ / 0-)

                            put into context.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:32:41 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What about handguns? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus

                            In 2011, handguns killed 6 times more people than knives, and about 20 times more people than rifles.

                            Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behavior does.

                            by skohayes on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:23:11 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Correct. (0+ / 0-)

                            Handguns are also subject to more stringent requirements to buy & are less powerful than a rifle.
                            This is because murder is about opportunism, not the power of the weapon.

                            That is why the AWB & mag bans are particularly wrong-headed.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:35:56 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You can't shoot if you have to reload. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus, i saw an old tree today

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:37:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You don't have to reload with a knife. (0+ / 0-)

                            Or with bare hands.
                            Or with a club.

                            All 3 of the above methods being used more often than all rifles combined.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:40:12 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes, that's why many knife attacks end in injury (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus, i saw an old tree today

                            but not death - because guns are the ultimate killer.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:41:35 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And six times more murders than all rifles (0+ / 0-)

                            combined.

                            It would seem that your "ultimate killer boogeyman" is just that--a boogeyman.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 05:44:01 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes, that's why the military insists that soilders (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Caittus, i saw an old tree today

                            use their bare hands.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 06:09:56 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What the military has its soldiers carry is (0+ / 0-)

                            irrelevant in a discussion of objects used to commit murder.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 06:26:15 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  a question for the both of you (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FrankRose

                            you each seem exceedingly informed regarding your stance on this issue.

                            i am unsure which way i ultimately fall. (i'll explain my background after my question, for those interested).

                            my question is predicated on my understanding that firearm manufacturers and users are protected from civil actions regardless of how the firearm is used. If that is the case, then: Would it serve your side's interest, and the nation, if the automatic exemption were removed and the manufacturer and/or the user were capable of being sued for negligence or other causes?

                            I would think this would put firearms back into the same category as automobiles (and knives and barefists) without touching the constitutional issue of the 2d A.

                            For those interested in my background; retired Army, own no weapons (have a loaner shotgun that came in handy when I was out of town and my wife had a late night meth-head visitor driving in the backpasture. it took the county police 20 minutes to arrive and they hurried), have killed one living mammal (put down a very old, sick dog with the owner's pistol). live where 9 out of 10 of the people i know have more than 2 firearms and i've picked up errant arrows shot by stupid hunters that landed in our pastures.

                            thanks for your considered responses in advance, and if i'm wrong about the liability insulation for manufacturers and users, then thanks for kindly correcting me.

                          •  I'm all for making gun manufactures liable for (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            greengemini, Pale Jenova, Caittus

                            their products, as well as gun owners being held liable for what their gun does.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:12:54 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  thnx for the reply (0+ / 0-)

                            what do you think would be the longterm ramifications on firearms-caused-death and injury if this were enacted? would it get the country to where you think it should be or would it fail to achieve that objective?

                          •  I believe he's talking about the PLCAA, not (0+ / 0-)

                            liability for manufacturing defect (which gun manufacturers have).

                            Unless you think that Ford should be liable for a drunk driver, you're going to have a hard time defending that viewpoint.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:29:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Gun manufacturers can be sued for mechanical (0+ / 0-)

                            failure resulting in injury/death, but cannot be sued for misuse or criminal actions, just like with automobiles.

                            The law, Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) was written to prevent strategic lawsuits against public participation --lawsuits with little chance of being successful but designed to bankrupt & intimidate from having to defend against them.
                            The law is analogous to Ford not being liable for a drunk driver.

                            Whether one is for more gun control or more gun rights, the PLCAA is a fair law & it doesn't give gun manufacturers anymore protection than any other manufacturer has.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:27:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  thnx for the clarification (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            FrankRose

                            i think i would like to make my perfect world hold motor vehicle manufacturers liable for enabling the drunk to drive (i.e. "force" the installation of devices that detect impairment), but guess that'll wait until i'm elected king.

                            so Frank, what path do you see as acceptable to providing the country with some sort of security from a perpetual "gunfail" column? because i worry about the amount of deer hunters who miss the four legged critters in my area, since the trees are perpetually being thinned, thus reducing my cover from poorly aimed projectiles

                          •  Deaths from gun accidents are extraordinarily rare (0+ / 0-)

                            and has been consistently falling for a century.
                            From the CDC report commissioned by Pres. Obama

                            Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010

                            For comparison's sake
                            Accidental deaths per year:
                            Motor Vehicles: 42,000
                            Poisoning: 39,000
                            Falls: 25,000
                            Fire: 2,700
                            Choking: 2,500
                            Drowning: 2,000
                            Bicycles: 800
                            Firearms: 600

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:59:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  How many Sandy Hooks were committed barehanded? (2+ / 0-)

                            Maybe we don't care about people murdering each other. That's always going to happen, regardless of gun laws.
                            Maybe we care about people murdering lots and lots of kids at all once. Maybe every single person in the USA has to give up the pleasure of owning a high-cap assault rifle (like my beloved Mini-14) so that we don't have any more Sandy Hooks.
                            I think that's a deal worth making. How about you?

                          •  "How many 911s were committed without planning by (0+ / 0-)

                            phone?"
                            That is the argument used to justify warrantless wiretaps, Gitmo & torture.
                            I didn't buy that argument then & I don't buy it now.
                            I don't think it is good policy to base rights on rare & tragic events.

                            Maybe every single person in the USA has to give up the pleasure of owning a high-cap assault rifle (like my beloved Mini-14) so that we don't have any more Sandy Hooks.
                            Columbine happened during AWB1 & the largest mass murder in US history was committed with a gallon of gasoline.
                            Forcing innocent people to give up their liberties & rights doesn't protect anybody.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 at 07:39:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  rifles (2+ / 0-)

                            I am confused, you keep saying "rifles" but most people think of "guns"  meaning all guns, rifles and hand guns. I get the impression you are dodging the main issue - gun control for ALL types of guns not just rifles.

                          •  1) The AWB bans rifles. (0+ / 0-)

                            2) The discussion we were in at the time revolved around 'potency vs convenience' in regards to tools used for murder. A rifle is more potent than handguns, knives, clubs or bare hands yet all of those objects are used in more murders than rifles are (which is one of the things that makes the AWB & mag bans so infuriatingly foolish).

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:26:20 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Semi-auto + high cap mag = weapon of mass (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            i saw an old tree today

                            destruction. Scalia agrees in Heller that dangerous and unusual weapons are and can be banned. Assault weapons fit that description. The terror and devastation they can inflict make them dangerous and unusual. That is why Federal courts have upheld AWBs in NY and Connecticut - public safety trumps common use in those rulings.

                            Semi-autos + high cap mags have proven themselves to be on par with explosive devices that have been deemed weapons of mass destruction.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 07:49:00 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Factually wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                            A 'weapon of mass destruction' is a chemical, biological or radioactive weapon.
                            Let's stick to the actual meanings of words, shall we?

                            There is nothing 'unusual' about a semi-auto weapon, but no matter.
                            It still has to be made law & judging by the spectacular failure of AWB2 on the national stage & the aftermath of a toothless mag ban in Colorado, such a ban isn't passing the electorate.

                            "Federal courts have upheld...."
                            They have upheld warrantless wiretaps & stop-and-frisk as well.
                            I can only assume you support those issues as well in your frantic & wrong-headed search for 'public safety'.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 08:16:59 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Semi-auto + high cap mags have killed more people (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            i saw an old tree today

                            than explosive devices in scores of mass shootings, for example, there were only two fatalities due to the two explosive devices used in the Boston bombing where as a semi-auto + high cap mag killed 26 in Newtown, 12 in Aurora, 32 at Virginia Tech, 8 in Tucson and so on.

                            That's dangerous and unusual.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:12:18 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Factually wrong: (0+ / 0-)

                            Oklahoma City bombing: 168 deaths 680 injuries.
                            Happy land fire: 87 deaths.
                            Bath School Disaster: 45 deaths.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:19:35 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes, Newtown 26; Virginia Tech: 32; Aurora: 12/56 (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            i saw an old tree today

                            ... they fit right in among the examples you cite and are very good examples of dangerous and unusual weapons.  

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:29:28 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And all have significantly less deaths than (0+ / 0-)

                            a gallon of gasoline caused in the Happy Land Fire.
                            Looks like you have an awful lot of banning to do.
                            Conversely you can educate yourself & rid yourself of such ignorant fear.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:36:54 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Tell that to Justice "Dangerous and Unusual" (0+ / 0-)

                            Scalia - he agrees that dangerous and unusual weapons can and should be banned:

                            We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms” —“prohibiting the carrying of ‘dangerous and unusual weapons.’ ”
                            http://www.nytimes.com/...

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:45:17 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And gasoline has proven to be more dangerous. (0+ / 0-)

                            Now all you have to do is convince the electorate.

                            Why not?
                            Trying to ban gas couldn't go much worse.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 09:53:26 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's an absurd arguement, but good luck with it. (0+ / 0-)

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:18:21 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh? Strange as you are citing death tolls (0+ / 0-)

                            from mass murder as your justification and the Happy Land Fire had a higher death toll.

                            But you are right about one thing; banning a legal object from innocent people because of the actions of a murderer is an absurd argument.
                            Glad you are starting to catch on.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:31:46 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Mumbo Jumbo - might as well type that in your (0+ / 0-)

                            comments over and over, that's about all you and the pro gunners have left to say:

                            Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo Mumbo Jumbo
                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            Like I said, you're argument is absurd - guns and gasoline are not one in the same, just ask Justice "Dangerous and Unusual" Scalia who supports gun bans, but not gasoline bans.

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 10:45:17 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

              •  Hey idiot (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                i saw an old tree today

                I own one gun. Don't put me in with the likes of you.

                I'm nothing like the gun nut idiots. Which I think you are.

          •  I support (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            greengemini

            I support gun safety policies.

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