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View Diary: Good news: ACA covers addiction treatment - Bad news: addiction treatment may not work (149 comments)

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  •  there is no more debate (8+ / 0-)

    and the idea that it is psychological has caused much harm and allowed blame and self-blame.  

    When the research was behavior driven, that idea was in vogue. Once the research was in biology and chemistry, it changed everything.  

    There are lots of ways to make it hard for people with addictions to seek treatment that works, and not get sidelined by some new theory.   There was once harm control, and if it were psychological you'd think that would have been a good treatment for some, but the woman who developed and sold that as treatment died in a one-car accident after 'controlled drinking' didn't stop her from a binge.  

    There is no psychological treatment that works.  That's all the research and it's also my experience, I've worked in this field 40 years. We are now only evidence based.  
    Now we really know what we're doing, and the success rates show it.  The idea of relapse is part of recovery is related to the sufferer finally 'recognizing' they have a disease and not a problem with self-control.  There isn't a special treatment for a special addict who want's to have the special variety and get that treatment.   The first impediment in seeking treatment is having to give up the idea that you're special and that your addiction is different, more poetic, or trauma based, or whatever, that's why individual treatment has never worked for establishing sobriety and why AA worked before we knew why.  

    •  Wonderful! NO MORE DEBATE (5+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      Piren, buddabelly, bsmechanic, Catesby, Lonely Texan
      Hidden by:
      ruellia

      Everyone who doesn't get 12 step can die and we can wash our hands of them because we know all that there is to know.

      So glad you cleared that up!

      Manufacturing outrage; the only manufacturing jobs Republicans won't outsource.

      by get the red out on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 12:40:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Now we really know what we're doing" (6+ / 0-)

      "and the success rates show it"

      Link?

      •  you can find your own (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ruellia

        there are hundreds of links.  Want me to give a link for chemotherapy?  This is sooooo known. Medical schools now have addiction as a speciality, ten so far, more coming.  This isn't a debate.

        •  sorry, your job to substantiate such a comment (6+ / 0-)

          not ours...

          You claim a good success rate, link it because the biggest collection of quacks I've ever seen congregate in "Recovery"....and I've never seen even a 20% legit success rate let alone anything that could be called good, verified of course, not woo from the councilors pov...

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 01:37:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  no it isn't (0+ / 0-)

            get a textbook. Go on line and google.  

            •  you have been here as long as I and as that's (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ebrann, Lonely Texan, get the red out

              the case, you well know that any statement of fact is yours to verify, with links...

              Thus it has always been, thus shall it always be.

              Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and you refuse to provide any.

              One link to many studies by another commenter shows at the 12 step study, no benefit at all could be quantified...none...

              So link it or it it doesn't exist....

              Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
              I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
              Emiliano Zapata

              by buddabelly on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 06:00:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  how about climate change (0+ / 0-)

                are we to give our evidence on climate change to deniers?

                I am not making a controversial point.  It's that standard now, so standard I can say, any textbook?  

                •  Big difference. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Lonely Texan

                  97% of all scientists believe in climate change.

                  But as far as addiction? You won't find a substantial link anywhere, that says anywhere near half of all doctors think that alcoholism is even a disease. Yet you claim that this knowledge is decisive on a level of... 97%. Hence... end of debate?

                  Were those doctors biased? It doesn't appear that way:

                  It is significant that a survey of doctors attending an annual conference of the International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous (IDAA) found that 80% of its members believed that alcoholism is simply bad behavior - - not a disease.

                  Gods can do anything. They fear nothing: they are gods. There is one rule, one Seal of Solomon that can confound a god, and to which all gods pay service, to the letter: when belief in a god dies, the god dies. -- Harlan Ellison

                  by bsmechanic on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:53:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  only doctors who (0+ / 0-)

                    specialize in addiction?  That is very sad that doctors are so out of touch, once Charlie Rose had addiction scientists on his show, I presume to educate.  There were four or six of them, in a round table discussion.  That was about four years ago.

                    those ideas are not just wrong, they are harmful. That means that someone with a treatable disease might forgo treatment and instead think they're just behaving badly.  Or their family might disown them, and blame them.

                    This is very sad information, seems like any fool can weigh in on someone's else's problem.  Doctors aren't any smarter out of their specialty than anyone else, but you'd think they'd at least know enough to say they don't know enough.

        •  Chevalier Mal Fet asked you for a link (6+ / 0-)

          to back up your anecdotal statement:

          Now we really know what we're doing, and the success rates show it.
          To source such information with a link is common practice at Daily Kos, a reality-based community. You posted this statement as fact, without backing it up. It is not anybody else's job to "find the links themselves."

          Gods can do anything. They fear nothing: they are gods. There is one rule, one Seal of Solomon that can confound a god, and to which all gods pay service, to the letter: when belief in a god dies, the god dies. -- Harlan Ellison

          by bsmechanic on Wed Mar 26, 2014 at 01:41:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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