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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: I'll see your mudslide and raise you a global warming edition (99 comments)

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  •  Outrageous.... (5+ / 0-)

    I remember a story here (I love dailyKos) which told of an ancient church or monastery or some such that needed a new roof. (In England, I think)
    They thought that they could never find the huge beams that were needed.
    Low and behold, when the original trees were cut down, they had been replanted. Now the replacements were perfect for the job.

    How the frig are logging companies at least not re-planting? How is that fracking possible?????

    It has been 30 years? I would think that replanted trees would have prevented this tragedy.

    How sad. How depressingly sad. Typical of business as usual in the USA. Profits over everything else.

    The world is my country, all people are my brethren and to do good is my religion ~ Thomas Paine

    by third Party please on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 06:23:25 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Perhaps you should use the Google Machine (13+ / 0-)

      before making statements like that. Washington, like most western states, has had Forest Practices laws for decades.

      The FPA, originally adopted in 1974, is found in Ch. 76.09, RCW. Forest practices are activities related to growing, harvesting, or processing timber, including, but not limited to, road and trail construction and maintenance, thinning, harvesting, salvage, reforestation, brush control, suppression of diseases and insects, and using fertilizers.

      Read the regulations here.

      As for the clearcuts visible from the air or vantage points on the ground, they are quickly replanted with native species that grow 2-3 feet annually. Old clearcuts with trees 50ft tall or larger show up readily because of the contrast with surrounding timber.

      A planet with 7 billion residents is going to use lots of wood, period. The question is where does it come from, and how is it regulated.

      Washington's forest practices have been highly regulated for 40 years. That's not to say that places get cut that shouldn't get cut - the prediction of landslides is an inexact science.

      But the key thing to remember is that, for every parcel of land removed from timber production in a regulated area like the western US, that production is simply moved elsewhere on the planet. The only way to change that equation is to reduce the worldwide demand for wood.

      •  Oh, they are required to re-plant? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JerryNA, nocynicism, libnewsie

        and they did?

        Surprising. I don't recall seeing any planting in the clear-cuts I saw in Oregon.

        But, considering the next comment by TerryDarc, it sure seems to be too little too late, eh?

        The world is my country, all people are my brethren and to do good is my religion ~ Thomas Paine

        by third Party please on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 07:18:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Please see my reply to that comment. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Polly Syllabic, Wood Gas
        •  I used to be a treeplanter on Forest Service land (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Yes they are required to replant. How closely did you look at them?

          "If Wall Street paid a tax on every “game” they run, we would get enough revenue to run the government on." ~ Will Rogers

          by Lefty Coaster on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 02:50:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Replanting in N MN (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          foresterbob, libnewsie, codairem

          Granted, conditions are different in Northern Minnesota, compared to the Pacific Northwest,  but in my 37 years here, the number of people employed in forestry (oversight) in the area has drastically shrunk. Now it seems that rather than a wood product company owning forest land, and managing if for the future, various private parties own the forests. Loggers bid on the sales. There's much less of a long term outlook for the land. My husband love to plant trees on land we own. He hasn't found it particularly easy to get trees to live because there is so much competition from brush, weeds, grass, and munching by animals, especially deer. Some years that he has planted have been way too dry. He babies some of his trees, protecting them with various tree protectors, which I call "candy wrappers" because the deer can get at the seedlings oh so easily. He has planted thousands of trees in the last 25 years, but the survivors are probably in the hundreds. And they have to be probably 5 years old to get taller than the competition.  

      •  Here in western Oregon I have noticed (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        patbahn, wenchacha

        that many clearcuts that are replanted (as required) are overrun by Scotch Broom, Blackberry thickets or other invasive species before the replanted trees can take hold.

        Alpacas spit if you annoy them. So don't do that.

        by alpaca farmer on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 07:41:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here are the state requirements. (9+ / 0-)
          Reforestation means more than simply planting seedlings or saving residual seedlings, saplings, or trees already on the site. The landowner must see to it that the trees are in "free to grow" condition six years after harvesting. "Free to grow" means that a tree has a good chance of outgrowing competing grass and brush to become part of a vigorous, healthy forest. This makes it very important for landowners to plan for reforestation before harvesting begins. Good planning will minimize costs and ensure successful reforestation.
          And the consequences for failure to comply?
          Failure to reforest can result in: a citation, an order to repair the condition, a fine up to $5000, and removal from forestland tax deferral with a bill for back taxes.
          Source: Oregon Department of Forestry, link.
        •  Washington Conservation Corps (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          My daughter spent a summer doing her best to remove invasive plant species in and around Olympic National Park. The crews dug out plants where they could, slashed with machete where they couldn't, and sprayed more RoundUp than I would like. It is an endless sort of effort, I think.

          Seeing clear-cut hillsides is a crummy thing if you love forests for their natural beauty. It is more complicated when thinking about the families, the livelihoods, and the renewable aspect of timber. I am not personally affected in any immediate sense, beyond a desire for conservation of our resources.

          For me, the problem is that I don't trust the industries that profit from logging. Maybe they are all honest people. As a citizen, I have lived in a time when a suburban mom could take on a giant chemical company, and win, at Love Canal. There was an established EPA Superfund to clean up polluted sites. I don't think we have the same support today for ecology.

      •  how many people in oso wanted timbering? (0+ / 0-)

        i wonder how many do now?

        •  I've been to Oso, it was originally a logging camp (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          foresterbob, patbahn

          The last ice age depressed the land there by the weight of the ice, so that the  Oso area was a river delta. Loose, very deep deposits of silt and mud from this period  had far more to do with that slide than the intervening 12,000 years of wild fires, logging and or human intervention did.

          Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. Sam Clemens

          by Wood Gas on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 04:11:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  i might have told that story. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, libnewsie

      it's an english story, the royal forester had trees marked out
      to replace the beams at canterbury

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