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View Diary: Tonight, Ongoing! Albuquerque Protests Police Violence. Police Respond with Violence. (101 comments)

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  •  Your response indicates you lack a thorough, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar

    working knowledge of horses. And you are abusing the word 'abusive', based on that ignorance.

    Sorry, but facts are facts, and the mere fact of horses being in the position of a crowd control situation is not, of itself, abusive.

    To address specifics, the bits I see are snaffles and kimberwickes, very mild, almost no leverage. The horses have appropriate protective equipment and appear to be both responding willingly and unconcerned by their surroundings. I am actually familiar with some of the training that mounted patrol horses are given, so I speak specifics and from experience with actual horses, (none from that area, but what I observe in the pix are consistent with my experience), not the projection of uninformed opinion and theory.

    You are welcome to your opinion, whether or not it's an informed one. You are not welcome to make up or misrepresent facts.

    Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
    ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

    by FarWestGirl on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 12:27:05 PM PDT

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    •  My opinion is an informed one (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, FarWestGirl

      I had a horse for 9 years. Thanks for the judgmental answer though. Horses are sensitive to their surroundings. They are able to tell if a human being is afraid or calm. This is not "crowd control." This is a protest where emotions are running high.

      •  Respectfully, one horse for 9 years is not an (0+ / 0-)

        informed opinion in this context. My answer was an assessment based on yours, not a judgement, though they do sound similar in short, and I apologize for the impression.

        You have some background and are correct within a narrow frame, they do try to avoid stepping on people, (or anything else), and the are prey animals with an inclination to panic and flight. However, animals have personalities as varied as we do, choosing a horse who is temperamentally appropriate for the job you intend for them to do is an art and where an awful lot of problems are rooted. People who aren't happy or temperamentally suited for their jobs don't do well, either, whether or not they have been given proper training and instruction. I've delivered and raised dozens of horses, rescued and retrained many more, from numerous breeds, who had been abused, neglected and badly handled. I used to specialize in problem horses; or more properly, horses who had been subjected to problem people. I've trained professionally, though intermittently, since 1976 and managed facilities all over the US. I've raised and shown horses in various disciplines since I was 10, (1971), and have what would likely be termed extensive training in disciplines from dressage, (up to 2nd level), jumping, (4 ft hunters), to trail and wilderness packing.

        A protest where emotions are running high is exactly 'crowd control'. And I am assessing what the pix show as to their level of, or lack of, anxiety in their surroundings and the equipment which is being used on them. I am assessing what I see based on what my (considerable) experience tells me, not a theoretical or philosophical projection.

        Using horses in crowd control has cautions, you've named a couple of them, but it is not inherently abusive. It can be, depending on how they are selected, trained and handled. I see no evidence of that here.

        The actions associated with this protest and the AQPD that I believe are abusive are the attack dogs that have been improperly trained and handled in the situations that I have seen in this situation. The dog that attacked the homeless man, (Boyd?), was poorly trained and improperly handled.  Encouraging only marginally controlled aggression is abusive, IMO, and I am far from alone in that opinion. This is a lack of professionalism, training and discipline. The handler's lack. The dog was not directed to 'hold' and control the subject to decrease any potential danger to the officers, he was allowed and encouraged to attack without direction and did not recognize the 'release' command.  This makes him dangerous, unstable and unlikely to be able to transition to post job life. And without retraining and a better handler, he should not be in the job he is.

        As in the horses, training dogs for use by the police is not inherently abusive but it has cautions. AQPD, (and many other law enforcement agencies in the US), disregard those cautions and use the dogs in improper and unprofessional ways that are abusive to the dogs, IMO, especially in the long term.

        peace.

        Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
        ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

        by FarWestGirl on Tue Apr 01, 2014 at 11:19:37 AM PDT

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