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View Diary: Russia Making Conciliatory Moves On Ukraine (75 comments)

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  •  Crimea does not want (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, Euroliberal

    to "get back to Ukraine".

    That should be the end of it.

    Something like a third of Ukraine does not want to be a part of it either . . . that's the issue now.  Russian speaking Eastern Orthodox East Ukraine will either get a LOT more "autonomy" or it will separate completely.  That ball is rolling now, and Putin needs do no more than the occasional "wink wink, nudge nudge".  The IMF "austerity" plan will move that right along for him . . .

    Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

    by Deward Hastings on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 02:04:52 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Medieve made a trip to Crimea today (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deward Hastings

      and made a big play of boosting pensions. These are the heirs of Checkov. They know to put on a show.

    •  really? (0+ / 0-)

      based on what?  A totally fake election?

      And the Tatars who are being subject to a nice little pogrom in the making certainly don't agree.

      And in that "third of Ukraine" Russians make up a minority.  I love how a few protests happen and all of a sudden the east of Ukraine wants whatever.

      Basically, it is Anschluss II.  Bad news for the Ukrainian majorities in those areas.

        •  Well (0+ / 0-)

          If it isn't our favorite Russian ultranationalist

          •  This is supposed to be a reality based blog (0+ / 0-)

            All three of your statements are wrong and misleading.

            They consist of deception and (what has become the norm for many anti-Russia posters here) argumentum ad Hitlerum.

            •  I wouldnt talk (0+ / 0-)

              Seeing your penchant for simply spouting whatever Kremlin propaganda Russia Today spits out.  You have a long long history on this site of putting out completely false info.  

              And yes those election results were illegitimate, given the repression, torture, and disappearances of people on the no campaign and the mathematics show that the results were fraudulent.  If you are going to cook the books on an election, you really ought to claim results that are remotely plausible

              I'm not discussing this further

              •  I've backed up every statement with links (0+ / 0-)
                And yes those election results were illegitimate, given the repression, torture, and disappearances of people on the no campaign
                The one suspicious death is under investigation. There had been no reports of major disruptions in the run-up to the referendum.
                the mathematics show that the results were fraudulent
                I've already countered that falsehood several times. Here it is again:
                Updated: Russian media distorted the turnout of the residents in Sevastopol

                Several Russian media quoting Mikhail Malyshev – Chairman of the committee in the Supreme Council of Crimea, responsible for organization and conduction of the referendum, stated that more than 1.7 million people participated in the Crimean referendum.

                In particular gazeta.ru stated that Mikhail Malyshev said the following:

                “1 250 426 people have voted in Crimea by 20.00. This is the data not counting Sevastopol. 1 724 563 people voted including Sevastopol”. He added that the turnout was 81.36%.

                Looking at this data an observant blogger teh-nomad calculated that 1 724 563-1 250 426= 474 137 people from Sevastopol supposedly voted in referendum. Wherein the Sevastopol stats website shows this information:

                By the 1st November 2013 the population of Sevastopol was 385 462 people. This is including under aged who do not have a right to vote.

                474 137 — 385 462 = 88675 suddenly appeared during the referendum in Sevastopol.

                However, in reality gazeta.ru and other media were mistaken. Malyshev did not say 1.7 million participants. He said 1 524 563 people including Sevastopol. The following video shows this moment.

                78% of the people voted to join Russia - 83% x 94% = 78%. The people in Crimea were scared about what was going on in Kiev. The threat to make Ukranian the prime language of the state and the threat to not extend the naval lease were major concerns. Add to that the threat of lower pensions, wages and employment with the IMF loan. People in Crimea know their pensions and wages are half of what Russian get.
                •  Besides (0+ / 0-)

                  The fact that te revised turnout is higher than the eligible voting popukation, especially in light of the Tatar boycott and the substantial Ukrainian minority

                  There are many reports besides this one of similar nature

                  http://www.amnesty.org/...

                  Note:  this is not taken from a Russian government source

                  •  Did you even read my link? (0+ / 0-)
                    te revised turnout is higher than the eligible voting popukation
                    The reason for the apparent turnout being higher than the eligible voting population is because Malyshev was MISQUOTED. 200,000 had been added. Using Malyshev real numbers there is NO discrepancy.
                    http://www.stopfake.org/...

                    Malyshev did not say 1.7 million participants. He said 1 524 563 people including Sevastopol. The following video shows this moment

                    The following site attempts to show fake news about the conflict from both sides.

                    http://www.stopfake.org/...

                    Here's up-to-date information from Amnesty International. All the Crimean people are accounted for now.

                    http://www.amnesty.org/...

                    Oleksiy Gritsenko and Sergiy Suprun were released early in the morning on 20 March at a village on the border between Kherson region in mainland Ukraine and the Crimea. Natalya Lukyanchenko had been released earlier.

                    The violence is a two way street. There's crap from both sides.
                    http://www.amnesty.org/...

                    Lawlessness and mob violence

                    While the eyes of the world are on Crimea, human rights violations continue to take place elsewhere in Ukraine. Amnesty International is also concerned that police are failing in their duty to adequately protect those peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of assembly and expression.  

                    On Thursday night, at least one protester was killed and many more wounded when violence erupted between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian protesters in the eastern industrial city of Donetsk.

                  •  Here's video from non-Russion source (0+ / 0-)
                    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...
                    Crimea welcomes time shift to synchronise with Russia
                    [Video]
                    Crowds gathered in front of Simferopol Railway's clock tower on Saturday night to celebrate a new time change in a shift which finalises ties between Crimea and Russia.

                    People waved Russian flags, embraced and cheered enthusiastically as Crimea moved its clocks forward by two hours bringing it in line with Moscow.

                    The act was a final symbolic move in the break away from Ukraine.

      •  The vast majority of Austrians wanted to (3+ / 0-)

        be a part of Germany, they were barred by treaty from becoming a part of Germany, so that isn't exactly the best example to use here.

        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

        by AoT on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 07:15:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  are you serious? nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Claudius Bombarnac

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