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View Diary: Democrats must run against Obamacare repeal. Not just for Obamacare. Against repeal. (184 comments)

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  •  Obamacare will not be the driver of voters to the (12+ / 0-)

    polls....

    It will be the economy stupid......and JOBS, JOBS, JOBS...

    And the fear of a plutocratic takeover of this democracy....the income gap is the winner for Democrats, if they can exploit it....

    •  Democrats Stand For Helping The Non-Rich (4+ / 0-)

      with government programs that the rich don't need and they do not want their taxes raised. That is the narrative and helping the non-rich with the ACA and programs that raise wages and lower the unemployment rate are all part of the narrative.

      •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sotiredofusernames

        Interesting thought, but sounds like fiction to me.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:54:02 AM PDT

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        •  Well, the platform clearly does. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          quill, Leo Flinnwood

          And the legacy since FDR does. Elizabeth Warren and Alan Grayson are the ICONIC Democrats of our time.

          But NOT Third Way practitioners who today by far dominate the Party, of course. They neither represent the platform nor the legacy or the Party.

          And that is the ENTIRE reason why Republicans still exist as a political party. People no longer believe Democrats mean what they say. For a moment, with Obama, they suspended that disbelief. But mostly they are not inspired in the way they would be if Democrats truly behave like a populist Party out to rebuild the Middle Class and support the poor.

          Trust, but verify. - Reagan
          Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

          When the rich have tripled their share of the income and wealth yet again, Republicans will still blame the poor and 3rd Way Democrats will still negotiate.

          by Words In Action on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 09:26:40 AM PDT

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          •  Elizabeth Warrn and Alan Grayson iconic? (0+ / 0-)

            That must be why everybody knows what you mean when you say EW or AG.

            I don't know if people disbelieve that Democrats mean what they say or whether they don't like what Democrats say, or what.

            I do know that lots of people have suffered mightily in the current depression without a lot of sympathy or action by the administration.

            Republicans have been worse, but they aren't in charge and that is an advantage with a fatigued electorate.  Think 2010 -- how many people were really voting Republican so much as registering their dissatisfaction.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 12:27:34 PM PDT

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        •  It Is The Winning Narrative Not Told Enough (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ian Reifowitz

          by many Democrats. So I can dream.

      •  True, that's the platform, for which Warren (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        quill, Ian Reifowitz

        and Grayson, and Sanders as a caucus member, are the icons.

        But the Party itself, its leadership and the vast majority of its membership, in practice, are not.

        And that's why Republicans retain significant power.

        But for lack of adherence to a populist platform, the Democrats fail to drive public economic policy; or rather, they participate in driving it and us into the ground.

        Trust, but verify. - Reagan
        Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

        When the rich have tripled their share of the income and wealth yet again, Republicans will still blame the poor and 3rd Way Democrats will still negotiate.

        by Words In Action on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 09:29:49 AM PDT

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        •  The Price Paid For Not Adhering to It (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ian Reifowitz, Shawn87

          is not having a consensus for governing hich the populist platform would give them. Sticking to it would annoy wealthy contributors and business interests in their districts. Success would come at the price of rubbing those people the wrong way and that is the price they do not want to pay.

    •  False choice, people don't vote for one reason (5+ / 0-)

      if that was the case we would be cleaning up with whites in the deep South. Voters are people, and people are complex.

      -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)! Follow on Twitter @dopper0189

      by dopper0189 on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:12:25 AM PDT

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      •  People are complex, (6+ / 0-)

        but voting is simple.  Complex arguments do not stand up well among "average voters", who are uninformed as to the facts, the issues, etc. Republican ascendency in this nation over the last 45 years, from Nixon to Reagan to Bush I and Shrub, was based on a very SIMPLE message to the people: liberalism is your enemy.  It worked because it was a message equally understood - for different and 'complex' reasons - by white southern racists and northern "ethnic" (Irish, Italian, etc) blue-collar workers and white suburbanites across the country.

        What Ian suggests here, is the basis for a grand strategy that can go far beyond the matter of health care alone, and which can appeal to many voters across the country on many issues, from economic to health care to immigration to schooling to race etc: Republicans are your enemy. In every one of these issues and more, the Republicans have overreached and provided plenty of compelling and very public evidence to support that contention: Republicans are the party of the 1% - they don't care about YOU, the average American voter, they have been trying hard to screw YOU out of your wages, your health care, your rights, and even your political system itself.

      •  There are many things you can say about whites (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ian Reifowitz, dopper0189

        In the South, going back to the civil war.....
        Kentucky and Georgia are overcoming their handed-down racism...but let's assume them as an outlier....

      •  Absolutely (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shawn87

        Which is why I am not concerned that republicans will makes gains I'm the midterm. If they have the house and senate, especially if it is tea party, the it will be shown that all they can do is whine.  If they took the house and senate, and fixed the ACA, no damage or destroy it, they could win the next presidency but that will not likely happen.

    •  And the repubs have done everything they could (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ian Reifowitz, Shawn87

      To sabotage the economy - oppose and end the stimulus, austerity, reduce public employees, cut cut cut.  Whether this is from their misguided ideology, ignorance of basic economics, or from a traitorous desire to wreck the economy for their narrow political gain - I don't know.

      "Corporations exist not for themselves, but for the people." Ida Tarbell 1908.

      by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:14:04 AM PDT

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      •  My guess is "traitorous desire to wreck Obama" (6+ / 0-)

        by killing ANY chance of economic recover, and counting on the STUPIDITY of the nation (and the plutocrat-funded right wing media wurlitzer) to press home the LIE that the slow economic recovery is due to Obama's policies, including Obamacare, and BENGHAZI!!!!

        Meanwhile, Mr,. Boehner, WHERE ARE THE FREAKIN' JOBS JOBS JOBS?

        America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

        by dagnome on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:33:23 AM PDT

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      •  It's B. Do not doubt that. (6+ / 0-)

        Malice is the only remaining motive for their behavior. they can see the results of their insistence on getting their way just like everyone else can. the fact that they (to a man) refuse to acknowledge the harm their policies have done and continue to do is proof positive. their hateful, divisive rhetoric, bordering on "g-d damn america" is more. Who they speak to, how they speak, the deliberate obfuscation of their motivations, all of this points in one direction only.

        The republican party has decided that democracy is not in its interests, and as a group is furious with America for our behavior lately.

        Last full month in which the average daily temperature did not exceed twentieth-century norms: 2/1985 - Harper's Index, 2/2013

        by kamarvt on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:39:58 AM PDT

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      •  Sabotage the economy is a funny concept. (0+ / 0-)

        Don't forget that if you read the headlines, the economy is doing pretty well right now.  The unemployment rate is down and stock market indices are up.  Even home sales and prices have wobbled upward.

        The reality is much darker, but you can make a case that nobody has sabotaged the economy because everything is coming up roses.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:55:49 AM PDT

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    •  It will be JOBS, JOBS, JOBs -- primarily (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ian Reifowitz

      Lots of people will be voting for/against ACA, however.

      Even a bad economy has losers and winners, and winners tend not to be so excited about it.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:53:38 AM PDT

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    •  There are plenty of jobs (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ian Reifowitz, Calamity Jean

      My 21 year old daughter had 4 offers in one day.  The problem is that the jobs we do have don't pay enough.  

      Most low income employees, min or not, are aware that an increase in min wage will increase their income also.  

      If the elite liberals opened their eyes they might see that a HUGE majority of jobs today pay less than $15 per hour, the figure we are fighting for here in Seattle.

      Even most bank employees make less than $15.  Retail managers make less than $15 in most industries today.  Administrative and clerical workers make less than $15,  Take a look at craig's list for Seattle and see than almost ALL jobs offered pay less than $15 and most demand a degree.   It's not just fast food workers folks.

    •  But LOSING IT would!! (0+ / 0-)

      A lot of us who gained it are petrified that if he Senate, they can balls it up for the rest of us the way the governors did for their earners under $20K.

      I am one of these who are so terrified of losing it, I had got it for a family member off exchange (back in November, when there were all the stories of uncertain outcomes) ---just in order to guarantee having the coverage ready to go on Jan 1.

      I am one of these who are so terrified of losing it, I had got it for a family member off exchange (back in November, when there were all the stories of uncertain outcomes) ---just in order to guarantee having the coverage ready to go on Jan 1.

      Far too many people write them off as stupid do-nothings, simply mindlessly "repealing" the whole thing, but actually they are expert at using their staffers' legislative abilities to insert clever little spanners in the works behind the scenes, that gradually would cripple it, the way that Republicans cripple laws for high risk pools when they are in power.

      They CAN do it - they CAN cripple Obamacare from the inside. It makes no difference who is president. A Democratic president has no control over the funding for agencies - a Republican Senate could rubber stamp a HHS or IRS funding level that cripples it with bureaucracy. That's how they work.

      Thanks Democrats! My Obamacare is permanent coverage no one can take away - and saving $3,000 is nice too

      by sotiredofusernames on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 11:52:17 AM PDT

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    •  Yes, but that is also what the GOP counts on (0+ / 0-)

      Because that's what they'll be focusing on jobs any day now. The problem is that they always change focus on the last several years of crap they've put on our dinner plates once it all fails. Iraq, immigration, gay rights, the economy, etc. etc.

      Repeal won't work and soon they will change the subject. They'll find another button to push. And will we, for the zillionth time let them? Or will we, now and through 2016, begin to remind the public of their 4 year temper tantrum? That they won't expect. If over and over and over again we remind the public at every turn that they did not want health care reform. That they wasted 70+ million dollars on 50 repeals in the House of Representatives.

      Yes, jobs are important, but we must also remind the public that the GOP DIDN'T FOCUS ON JOBS until right before the election. They didn't try doing anything about wages for 4 years. They need to be hounded into a defensive posture. We need to stand for those things while talking about their misguided ideological catastrophe.

    •  I agree that's the big issue still, but still... (0+ / 0-)

      Obamacare is in the conversation, and the Democrats need to be able to talk about it. Now, finally, they're in a position where they can talk about it in a way that it's a winner - maybe not the main point in their platform, but something that will help them, and not detract from the economic inequality argument that is, as you say, their big winner.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 04:51:37 PM PDT

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    •  The ACA will help them exploit the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      jobs issues as the ACA creates jobs in health care and in construction. Yes, all those new and expanded Community Health Centers, thanks to the ACA are going to need all kinds of building trades and suppliers. And that's not counting other construction created by the ACA. Medical building of all kinds is expanding.

      All the Republicans have done over the last five years is block 47 Job creating bills while trying to kill the ACA. Oh, and there's that little War of theirs against Women. Think there aren't tie ins with the ACA and the economy there? Guess again.  

      The Democrats just need to tie it all together and put a big blue bow on it.

      There is something in us that refuses to be regarded as less than human. We are created for freedom - Archbishop Desmond Tutu

      by Onomastic on Sun Apr 06, 2014 at 08:47:36 PM PDT

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