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View Diary: Falling on the Floor Laughable Hypocrisy: U.S. Criticizes EU Plan to Bypass American Networks (84 comments)

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  •  It'll just make it easier for cordoned-off (5+ / 0-)

    governments to spy on each other - via many reports, the NSA is far from a lock on tapping into wider network traffic.

    My guess: this is essentially a PR move, meant to begin pulling network domain management, infrastructure ownership, etc. away from the highly dominant USA.  Anything actually built would eventually be bridged back into the larger backbone.

    It's about money and not a bad play to try.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 08:41:43 PM PDT

    •  All perhaps true (6+ / 0-)

      but do you not find our hypocrisy here and tone-deafness astounding?

      I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

      by pajoly on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 08:44:08 PM PDT

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      •  Yes, on the surface it reads as incredibly (14+ / 0-)

        tone-deaf to most reported activities about our government's real (and perceived) data collection activities.

        I just found it interesting that our primary response was to immediately reference trade agreements: essentially confirming that our early position has nothing to do with admitting to overreach (i.e., a point on which the European PR swipes effectively at us, however implicitly) and the possibility of negotiating to better reign that in, but being squarely about ownership, control and revenue flow concerns.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 08:55:21 PM PDT

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        •  "rein", ugh (n/t) (5+ / 0-)

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 08:56:25 PM PDT

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        •  You make decent points. (27+ / 0-)

          Just don't underestimate how pissed Europe is at the behavior of the United States.

          Europe is covered by continent-wide data protection laws.

          The data collected by government and commercial interests, on EU citizens, is strictly ring-fenced and can be used only for the purpose the information was expressly given.

          For example ... a store cannot share information it holds on its computers with other commercial, or governmental organisations, and the penalties are severe.

          If caught they can lose their "Data Protection License", which means they are banned from storing customer information in their databases ... Think about that one.

          It also means that Europe is extremely nervous about sharing aircraft passenger information with the TSA, because the US Government refuses to undertake only to use that information for the express purpose ... In other words, they cannot, under European law, share passenger manifests with other government departments not related to the strict safety of the aircraft.

          America has NOTHING like this, despite the 4th Amendment.

          When I hear people lauding the Constitution, the first question is always ... "But is it working, and is their redress?"

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          Who is twigg?

          by twigg on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 09:40:55 PM PDT

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          •  By the way ... (10+ / 0-)

            This would also prevent the likes of Mike Huckabee and others from the profiteering they are engaged in by selling their email lists to dodgy commercial outfits.

            I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
            but I fear we will remain Democrats.

            Who is twigg?

            by twigg on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 09:53:13 PM PDT

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          •  I'm in a position where I actually probably (6+ / 0-)

            shouldn't comment on more specifics and pretend it's only my opinion (i.e., not that of my employer), actually.

            Not intending to downplay your analysis at all.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 10:01:28 PM PDT

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            •  Of course there is always the big money side (10+ / 0-)

              to issues like this

              Anything actually built would eventually be bridged back into the larger backbone.
              But that view dismisses the fact that big money can be made from a independent network , without all the bugs that come with AMERICAN MADE now ...And the way technology is advancing , such smugness is going to undermine the American tech business , people do not want to do business with people with that attitude
              America is going to put a bug up the ass of everything you own , you just need to get over it
              America is so overly arrogant it makes me want to puke ...We , the Obama team included , did not even acknowledge the OP's reaction when all of this was going down , corrective action to save this kind of business connection should have been presented immediately  , instead America just acted like it was no big deal

              When I travel or if I move over seas , I will use anything BUT American connected products  

              Wader , to be clear , my comment is not directed at you personally , I appreciate your view and comment

              Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

              by Patango on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 10:28:20 PM PDT

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          •  you do realize (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Yoshimi, RiveroftheWest, Roadbed Guy

            that France, the UK, Germany and Spain have all 'been caught' doing as much as the NSA has been accused of if not worse?

            Thus this is pretty much pure posturing with a side of Europe wanting the traffic access the US has has.

            The US response is certainly laughable but the proposal is equally so.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 11:25:13 PM PDT

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            •  It all looks like Kubuki (0+ / 0-)

              We spy and they spy and everyone pretends that this is some new information.

              The reality is that Europe thinks it can compete with an American based internet. I'm all for it.

              •  I worry about fragmentation (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Yoshimi

                but realistically if Europe wants access to the US at some point they have to allow traffic access and that means the NSA still has access.

                Thus yes it's all theater really.

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Sat Apr 05, 2014 at 10:25:16 AM PDT

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                •  Not Really (0+ / 0-)

                  Technically, it's trivial to incorporate end-to-end encryption in the networks (which the American side would then be forced to emulate in order to maintain contact). It's only NSA sabotage of the standards which prevented that from being done in the first place.

                  On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

                  by stevemb on Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 06:32:17 AM PDT

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                  •  no encryption is unbreakable (0+ / 0-)

                    and while I cede the argument to you as technically correct I think the practicalities of it would be the status quo.

                    Der Weg ist das Ziel

                    by duhban on Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 03:02:08 PM PDT

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                    •  Erroneous & Irrelevant: How Very Efficient Of You (1+ / 0-)

                      First, the error: unbreakable encryption exists, though it has practical limitations. The practicalities can be satisfied by substituting forms of encryption that are breakable in theory but not in practice (i.e. the cooling requirements for the system must accomodate "the sun blows up into a red giant about halfway through the calculations").

                      Second, the missing of the point: the effect of routine encryption is to limit surveillance to specific suspects (as even high-strength encryption can be subverted by physically tapping the user's keyboard or screen... but it has to be done one target at a time, which is a major shift away from the status quo and toward the Constitution).

                      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

                      by stevemb on Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 03:29:43 PM PDT

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                      •  between user error and the limitations (0+ / 0-)

                        of truly currently unbreakable encoding techniques I stand by my statement that no encryption is unbreakable.

                        hell even your 'example' admits that there are issues with it the biggest being that it needs a truly random generation. Do you even have half a clue how difficult that is to pull off in a computer? Especially in the scale we are talking about of millions of numbers?

                        You also don't seem to understand that raw computing power is increasing at an exponential rate. Passwords that were 'unbreakable' 20 years ago can often be brute forced by an off the shelf desk top. You really think they stand a snowball's chance in hell against a concentrated hashing attempt?

                        There is no system that can not be cracked it you are willing to put in the time, resources and energy. And if Europe wants to try and create a 'digital fortress' I wish them luck. Even though it remains mostly hypocritical on their part.

                        Der Weg ist das Ziel

                        by duhban on Mon Apr 07, 2014 at 03:38:38 PM PDT

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          •  Well, it ain't working but then the Law, (4+ / 0-)

            and this is any Constitution/Law imaginable anywhere in all time, is given its Spirit by the humans of the day. Particularly the power-possessing humans. And those people either have Noble Spirits or Degenerate ones. And thus, the Law moves accordingly.

            The USSR had just ratified perhaps the most advanced and just Constitution created, and right after it passed people started getting killed and enslaved in their hundreds of thousands and millions.

            The decades of Corporate brainwashing -- destroying adult values and replacing them with 'me and my appetites are the sum of meaning' -- brought us to our present highly degenerated political culture.


            Real fixes, outside the coffin fixes, ain't ever pragmatic says DC Bubble Conventional Wisdoom.

            by Jim P on Fri Apr 04, 2014 at 11:41:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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