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View Diary: 20 Stabbed, 8 Critically in Pennsylvania School Attack (268 comments)

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  •  Is that so? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    samanthab

    Then why are you here?

    And why can't you admit your claim is without evidence or support?

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 01:03:01 PM PDT

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    •  I don't have to admit anything (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Portia Elm

      about my own opinion. Take what you want and leave the rest.

      I've moved on to other parts of this discussion. You should think about doing the same.

      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

      by lunachickie on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 01:05:21 PM PDT

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      •  It's not your opinion. (5+ / 0-)

        You are making a claim of fact, not opinion.

        You don't get to call it your opinion because your claim of fact is unsupported.

        Well, rather, you do get to, but that, too, is disingenuous.

        Either drugs cause school violence or they don't. It is either factual they do, or it is factual they don't.

        To call it opinion is a dodge to avoid supporting your claims of fact.

        And if you'd moved on, you wouldn't still be posting.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 01:07:36 PM PDT

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        •  I never claimed it was "fact". (0+ / 0-)

          How many times do I have to say that before you're satisfied?  

          I do not need your permission to post here. I would appreciate it--and I'm sure many others would as well, at this late stage of the discussion--if you would simply let this go.  

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 01:14:26 PM PDT

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          •  You have had the power (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            samddobermann, samanthab, eru

            to end this at any time -- just stop posting about it.

            As long as you continue to post about it and hedge, I'm happy to pound your continued disingenuous arguments.

            Such as trying to call your assertions "opinions" when they are about matters of fact, not opinion. I don't care whether you say "I'm not calling it fact" -- that's just a dodge.

            Such as your "suspicion" -- which you can't even admit is completely unfounded -- that drugs are responsible for school violence.

            And such as your complete denial that making such claims, even in the form of groundless "suspicions", do harm in the form of spreading FUD and creating stigma.

            So you want me to let it go? Stop giving me the same disingenuous fodder to keep holding onto. Or better yet, retract your claims or admit they're completely groundless.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 01:20:55 PM PDT

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          •  I am soooo tired of this shit . . . . (8+ / 0-)

            Why in hell should anyone CARE about your uninformed opinion? Especially if you have zero evidence or data of any sort whatever to back it up?

            We on the left take justifiable pride in our tolerance. We openly advocate that EVERYONE should be treated equally, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else.

            BUT . . .

            When we attempt to apply that same "tolerance" to matters of SCIENCE (and "do medical drugs cause violence in kids?" is a matter of SCIENCE, not of opinion), we are utterly absolutely inexcusably wrong. Science is not a democracy. Science cares about facts and evidence, not about opinions. In science, all opinions are NOT equally valid or equally worthy of consideration, and no one can demand that they have a "right" to have their opinions given equal consideration. In science, there are only two kinds of opinions---those which conform to demonstrable facts and data, and those which DON'T. And we refer to the ones which don't as  . . . WRONG. Period. End of debate.

            And if you post your silly evidence-free CTs here, you should not act all crybaby whining when someone else points out that it's silly evidence-free CT.

            Sorry if that hurts your fee-fee's. (shrug)

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 01:58:00 PM PDT

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        •  I'm sorry, raptavio, but... (7+ / 0-)

          Saying "I have long suspected that X" is not a claim of fact, it is a claim of opinion, and that is what lunachickie said in the post that started this chain.  No one should take "I have long suspected that Bill Clinton and the Pillsbury Doughboy are one and the same" as a statement of fact.  

          Implied in a statement that you suspect something is that you have no or insufficient evidence. If you had sufficient evidence, you would no longer need to suspect it - you would have proof of it.

          -------------------------
          "[T]his is playing the long game, but it's about time we start playing the long game."
          kos
          ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

          by Laughing Vergil on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 03:03:33 PM PDT

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          •  Thanks for understanding the native language! (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YucatanMan, Kevskos, aliasalias

            It is much appreciated ...

            Saying "I have long suspected that X" is not a claim of fact, it is a claim of opinion,

            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

            by lunachickie on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 03:57:35 PM PDT

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          •  Yes, but it's still ableism, regardless of how (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            eru, raptavio

            it was stated.

          •  I have long suspected the sky was yellow. (0+ / 0-)

            I suspect you're actually a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

            Making assertions of fact and couching them in mealy-mouthed bull doesn't make them magically opinions.

            Either drugs cause mass shootings or they don't. One of those is fact. The other is not.

            And EVEN IF YOU ACCEPT the ludicrious assertion that you can make statements of fact into opinions just by couching them in such language, it still has the exact same effect of stigmatizing those with mental illness, who are not significantly more prone to violence against others than those without, and in particular those being treated for mental illness are no more prone than anyone else.

            So, no. Fuck prejudice.

            BTW: "I'm sorry but" are three words that never belong together.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Wed Apr 09, 2014 at 05:12:16 PM PDT

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