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View Diary: I am sick of this creationist crap (216 comments)

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  •  I appreciate the efforts of the Christian Left. (0+ / 0-)

    I just reject the notion of being grateful for someone's execution. I don't understand how that's progressive at all. I also reject the idea that a belief in God or human sacrifice (Christ's execution) is necessary to do good works. One only needs a healthy sense of self preservation.

    And religious fundamentalism is something quite apart from mainstream religion. I thought that was obvious to everyone.

    The thing is, the oppressors you speak of, they claim to be as Christian as you are. So which of you is the real Christian? If one is a believer, as you are, then I think you have to concede that only God knows that, no?

    •  On the Assassination of Agents of Change (0+ / 0-)

      I don't know of any Christians who are grateful Jesus was executed - any more than I know progressive people who are grateful MLK or JFK were assassinated.  Sticking your head out to advocate for change, especially against powerful interests, often ends up in an assassination.  I am grateful to anyone who has the guts to risk that sacrifice on behalf of the greater good.  That is the crux of voluntary redemptive suffering.

      (Note: Human sacrifice is not voluntary, and involuntary suffering is not redemptive.)

      We can and should argue all day what "the greater good" means.  And we Christians should argue all day what God requires of us, and what Jesus really taught.  But that is true of any organization or philosophy seeking to do good - just because a group of people claim to speak on behalf of everybody in their group, doesn't mean they actually do so.  That is part why I add my voice to KOS.  Evangelicals are least like the rest of Christianity, and most likely to believe they alone speak for all of us - a sign of their ignorance.  They are outliers.  They want to believe the crucifixion saves them from all moral obligation, and they have their arguments.  They are wrong and I'm happy to have the discussion about why - similar to the discussion here on KOS about effective progressive politics.

      I'm completely with you on rejecting the notion that only people who believe in some sort of Higher Power can do good works.  In fact, the most evolved moral thinkers I know are complete Atheists.  But other Atheists are completely amoral.  You can't judge a book by its cover in any language.

      IMHO, religion is a helpful construct to teach and discuss morality, but it tends to become idolatrous, and various religions address this tendency in various ways.  I think that is true of any moral philosophy - it becomes corrupt as it gains power, and the very words used to communicate shared beliefs change their meaning over time.  

      I don't think self-preservation can replace religion as a philosophy that will protect the greater good against the selfish and psychopathic.  Isn't that an Ayn Rand thing?  When I have stood up against evil, it entailed significant self-sacrifice that hurt me in the short term, endangered my long-term, and generally wasn't in my best interest measured directly.  Having arrests on my record - even if part of civil protests - hasn't been a resume builder, but it did promote religious reform about LGBTQ equality.  My belief that what I was fighting to achieve would in the long term help the general welfare - that is what sustained me.  Those beliefs were grounded in religion and honed by reality checks from the social sciences and the reasoning of my non-believing, non-Christian friends.   It wasn't about self-preservation.  It was an act of voluntary redemptive suffering.

      God gives every bird its food, but He does not throw it into its nest. - JG Holland

      by Liberal for Life on Mon Apr 14, 2014 at 02:30:22 PM PDT

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