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View Diary: Scientists: "Jesus said to them, my wife" papyrus is real (72 comments)

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  •  The Surviving Quotes in the 3 Mainstream (7+ / 0-)

    synoptic gospels appear to hang together in some ways distinct from the commentary surrounding them, based on word patterns, which given the different settings for the gospel story writing is soft evidence for one original speaker.

    It would be interesting to see if there are enough hooks within gnostic gospel quotations that would allow for word pattern comparisons to the quotes in the synoptics.

    There could well have been a historic teacher; and there's not necessarily a reason to deny that the teachings were preserved in writing. But none of the potential accuracy of teachings necessarily validates any other bits of the myths even if there was a real historic teacher.

    On the other hand I don't know of anything remarkable about the teachings even if we found them in an original Book of Jesus himself.

    The papyrus isn't "real" it's just probably old enough.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 11:13:16 AM PDT

    •  indeed (3+ / 0-)

      it's as "real" as all the rest of the new testament and gnostic gospels which date to around this period... however, IIRC, only some of the gnostic gospels actually date to 1st century and new testament comes well after ...I think the oldest new testament is a greek manuscript from 4th century? (can't remember)...

    •  Back when I attended (8+ / 0-)

      a tiny Presbyterian liberal arts college, we were required to take courses in New Testament and Old Testament. I was taught that the historic Jesus was a "minor trouble-maker" based on secular records of the era and that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were based on the same source, called "Q." (Don't think of Star Trek!)


      "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

      by cotterperson on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 11:33:00 AM PDT

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    •  That, or a redactor (2+ / 0-)
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      worldlotus, thanatokephaloides

      I'm not familiar with the various theories about the composition and editing of the New Testament, but in the case of the Torah,  ultimately a relatively small group of scribes worked it into  a single document.  The term for this person or persons is the "redactor".

      There might have also been a single document of "Sayings of Jesus" that is now lost, but was used in the making the edits.

      Quote of the week: "They call themselves bipartisan because they're able to buy members of both parties," (R. Eskow, Campaign for America's Future.)

      by mbayrob on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 02:42:01 PM PDT

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      •  Yes. A redactor is an editor. (1+ / 0-)
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        People who study the language of the Old Testament have identified several authors, based on the language used. I remember two of them are called J and E. J is the Jahwist (who always uses the word "Yahweh," which in German starts with a J). And E is the Elohist, who always refers to God as "Elohim." I think there's a D (Deuteronomist?) and a P (forget what that is). So there are at least four different authors. And their work was combined into one document by R (the Redactor, who was the editor, who fit it together). It's possible that some of these authors weren't a single individual but more of a committee who worked together.

        There are at least two stories of the creation (in one, men and women are created at the same time, but in the other a woman was created from Adam's rib). And there are two stories of Noah's ark.

        "Stupid just can't keep its mouth shut." -- SweetAuntFanny's grandmother.

        by Dbug on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 05:45:37 PM PDT

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        •  D and P (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          I think there's a D (Deuteronomist?) and a P (forget what that is).
          (D)euteronomic and (P)riestly respectively.


          "It's high time (and then some) that we put an end to the exceptionalistic nonsense floating around in our culture and face the fact that either the economy works for all, or it doesn't work AT all." -- Sean McCullough (DailyKos user thanatokephaloides)

          by thanatokephaloides on Thu Apr 10, 2014 at 09:48:33 PM PDT

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