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View Diary: Brendan Eich and Tolerance (162 comments)

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  •  Maybe they didn't choose to. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil

    Maybe they were doing other things then. Maybe they heard about the CEO appointment and got singularly outraged. Can't people do that?

    "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -- JC, Matthew 6:24

    by Chi on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 01:55:17 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Well, that's an interesting question... (0+ / 0-)

      If one goes digging through the Web, you'll find that Eich's donation had already gone through a rather open discussion within the Mozilla community back in 2012.

      Public statements were made, more than a few Mozilla employees spoke up--including statements of support for Eich from several LGBTQ Mozillans--and the general consensus (as I read it) seemed to be "Ok, that's disappointing, but let's get back to what we're all working on."  That's completely in keeping with the Mozilla principle that this stuff doesn't come into the workplace; in fact, several of the folks speaking on Eich's behalf made that specific point. So, the folks closest to the matter--Mozilla employees and the Mozilla community--had hashed it out back them and were going forward. There were no calls for Eich's resignation or demotion, and he continued as both CTO and Director.

      The general public didn't really get involved until OKCupid made their statement. The previous discussion was forgotten and ignored, the controversy erupted, and you know the rest. Even with his promotion to CEO, there were LGBTQ Mozillans speaking out in support of Eich.

      Now, on the outside looking in, who should we pay attention to: the folks at Mozilla, both straight and LGBTQ, who are closest to the guy, have worked with him for years, and know him best, or all the people who don't know him from Adam, have never worked with him, and are reacting only to the singular fact of his six-year-old donation?

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 04:47:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What are you trying... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anon004

        to achieve? Mr. Eich wasn't fired in the tradition of persons who work at that level in a company he resigned. I don't know what went into that decision Mr. Eich said he was stepping down because he couldn't be an effective leader. I would suggest that once the publicity got to the level it did his remaining would have been a severe distraction for the company.
        Who do you think did some terrible thing to Mr. Eich and what do you want them to do differently in the future? His appointment was offensive to some people and they made their feelings public and Mr. Eich and Mozilla came to a decision that this wasn't going to work. Who did something wrong here?

        This makes about as much sense as Mike Huckabee on mescaline. - Prodigal 2-6-2008

        by Tonedevil on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 06:31:55 PM PDT

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        •  Truthfully? Trying to figure out who to listen to. (0+ / 0-)

          Hey, I'm an old straight white guy. I support equality, but I'm fully aware of the fact that, due to my privilege, I'm never going to truly understand what the unprivileged--whether that lack of privilege stems from gender, sex, race, orientation, or whatever--experienced (or continue to experience) on a daily basis.

          Having said that, read what I wrote again:

          Now, on the outside looking in, who should we pay attention to: the folks at Mozilla, both straight and LGBTQ, who are closest to the guy, have worked with him for years, and know him best, or all the people who don't know him from Adam, have never worked with him, and are reacting only to the singular fact of his six-year-old donation?
          Sure, almost everyone here jumped on the "boycott"/"he should be fired" bandwagon, but I'm reading eloquent words like these, from a gay Mozilla employee:
          I have friends that hold political opinions that are antithetical to me – I do not exclude them from my life, I embrace my friends. I neither support nor understand their beliefs, but doesn't mean that I throw them away. I cannot condone holding a grudge in perpetuity. To do so would be leaving a wake of enemies behind me.   Instead, I could have them as allies beside me where we do agree.

          I do not agree with Brendan's support of Prop 8. However, that particular battle is one that Brendan lost. It's over. I don't know if his opinions have changed nor do I feel that I need to know. Technically, Brendan is a good choice for CEO: we need to be a technically driven company.

          Mozilla has a vocal LBGT community. Brendan could not derail us if he wanted to. I don't think that he does want to because he's focused on the real mission: the free Web. He's working with us, I, for one, am willing to set aside my trepidation and work with him, too.

          I say to the larger community calling for the ouster of Brendan Eich, “please don't succumb to the knee jerk reaction.” I did at first, but with some thought, I realize that we need to focus on the future not exact retribution for the past.

          (Sadly, the author of those words received death threats after publishing them...)

          So, as I said, I'm on the outside looking in, trying to figure out who to listen to...

          I'm sorry if I've seemed contentious or antagonistic. I'm not trying to be a jerk - I'm trying to figure things out, but I'm left comparing LGBT voices like the "don't succumb to the knee-jerk reaction" fellow quoted above to the more strident "he has to go" voices here and elsewhere.

          I'll shut up now. We've gone back and forth on a few points in various diaries on this topic; I do appreciate your comments - thank you.

          The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

          by wesmorgan1 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 08:03:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I really don't want you to shut up... (0+ / 0-)

            you and I face the same impediment, I too am an old straight white guy. I don't know how we truly have a legitimate voice in something like this. For my part, I am actually anti-capitalist so I find the CEO thing sick and sad. That said, if you are playing by those rules his statement on leaving indicating he could not be an effective leader is accurate and what the game demands.

            This makes about as much sense as Mike Huckabee on mescaline. - Prodigal 2-6-2008

            by Tonedevil on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 08:16:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  One thing I would keep in mind here (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil

            is that, in essence, Eich didn't not suffer consequences for his contribution in 2008.  He suffered consequences because he wouldn't repudiate that contribution in 2014.  Even George Wallace admitted he was wrong about segregation.

      •  Not true (0+ / 0-)

        The Wall Street Journal reported on the resignation of 3 Mozilla Board Directors upon Eich's appointment and various news organizations reported on Mozilla employee protests and call for a boycott BEFORE OK Cupid got in on the act.

        Suggest you check your facts and timeline.

        Public statements were made, more than a few Mozilla employees spoke up--including statements of support for Eich from several LGBTQ Mozillans--and the general consensus (as I read it) seemed to be "Ok, that's disappointing, but let's get back to what we're all working on."  That's completely in keeping with the Mozilla principle that this stuff doesn't come into the workplace; in fact, several of the folks speaking on Eich's behalf made that specific point. So, the folks closest to the matter--Mozilla employees and the Mozilla community--had hashed it out back them and were going forward. There were no calls for Eich's resignation or demotion, and he continued as both CTO and Director.
        What you failed to mention is the Board resignations and employee protests, so I'm happy to help you with that.

        No one is coming to save us, the future is in our hands.

        by koNko on Sun Apr 13, 2014 at 07:31:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was referring to the 2012 discussion... (0+ / 0-)

          ...not the discussion after Eich's selection as CEO.

          As I stated to open the comment (emphasis added):

          If one goes digging through the Web, you'll find that Eich's donation had already gone through a rather open discussion within the Mozilla community back in 2012.
          and as I stated to close the paragraph you quoted (emphasis added):
          So, the folks closest to the matter--Mozilla employees and the Mozilla community--had hashed it out back them [sic] and were going forward. There were no calls for Eich's resignation or demotion, and he continued as both CTO and Director.
          I thought it quite clear that I was referring to the events of 2012.
          What you failed to mention is the Board resignations and employee protests, so I'm happy to help you with that.
          Obviously, a discussion of events from 2012 would not include events from 2014, so I'm happy to help you with that.

          As far as the board members are concerned, you've provided a perfect example of selective citation. We've had dozens of commentators who said "Yeah, 3 board members resigned" or "the WSJ reported that board members quit" without providing any details. The original WSJ article of 3/28 reported:

          The three board members who resigned sought a CEO from outside Mozilla with experience in the mobile industry who could help expand the organization’s Firefox OS mobile-operating system and balance the skills of co-founders Eich and Baker, the people familiar with the situation said.
          That's a perfectly reasonable, logical explanation for their departure--in fact, it's a classic example of a corporate power struggle--but it doesn't support the suggestion that they resigned because of Eich's donation.

          As far as your assertion that this was big news before OKCupid inserted itself into the mix, I find it rather instructive that there was NO mention of this controversy here at Daily Kos (no diaries, anyway) until OKCupid's landing page went public. We have, in my opinion, one of the most ear-to-the-ground communities to be found online--I routinely read about events/issues at DK before they hit the major media--and a healthy chunk of folks active in the tech industry and open-source movement, but no one saw fit to write a diary about this until OKCupid's action?

          Yes, there was news coverage between 3/28 (first mentions by WSJ, MSNBC, TechCrunch, The Independent) and 3/31 (OKCupid's landing page), but it seems fairly clear that the latter was a major goad to action for many.

          The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

          by wesmorgan1 on Sun Apr 13, 2014 at 10:18:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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