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View Diary: Politico, Tal Kopan, and what's wrong with American political journalism (96 comments)

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  •  Why dont they buy their own land? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yoshimi, TracieLynn, NancyWH, groupw, Shawn87

    I certainly dont give a shit about a turtle. Or tortoise or whatever. But I dont see why folks in the meat business feel they need public property to stay in business.

    •  Like the people in the logging and oil (6+ / 0-)

      industry using federal land. I have no problem if the people of the United States are compensated.

    •  They do have their own land, it's just not worth (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NancyWH, Shawn87

      much without the grazing rights that surround it.

      Most ranches clear about $40K a year in profit, that's average. We Americans made a decision that we'd allow those folks who were already ranching to continue to do so on the open range. Multiple use and all. We figured it was a benefit to us all. But open range sucks, people over graze because it belongs to all, so we switched to grazing rights and the BLM and AUMs to make better use of the land and stop over grazing.

      Still later we decided we'd rather just have dessert and take that water for cities. So we did. It's our land, multiple use and all. What's funny is a lot of that land is still locked up in grazing rights for gentlemen absent landowners. A small amount of cattle rented out so an absentee landowner who really just wants a warm 10,000 square foot house out there in the desert with 10.000 acres of surrounding grazing rights for fifty cattle and authentic looking cowboys. They can even sell the conservation easements to offset large profits in the stock market.

      Bundy was just a hold out. Crazy too.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 06:54:05 AM PDT

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      •  Well, elections have consequences. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NancyWH, Bryce in Seattle, ban nock

        Tough.

        And I say this as a person who very much enjoys meat. Seems to me they have their cattle ranch in the wrong location if they cant graze em on their own land.

        •  From what I read from other folks in the area who (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          brooklynbadboy

          used to be ranchers they think about as you do. Courts have consequences, sometimes you lose other times you don't. When you lose it's best to just move on best you can, he could have done that twenty years ago, instead he makes a big stink. Ignoring the law isn't going to do him any good either. a month or two or ten from now they'll just take his stuff. Those other 50 ranchers figured it out, and the two besides him that still remain figured something out.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 01:16:15 PM PDT

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    •  Can't rec this idea (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NancyWH, i saw an old tree today
      dont give a shit about a turtle. Or tortoise or whatever
      as wildlife are sentinels for the health of the environment.

      But I do agree with this thought

      I dont see why folks in the meat business feel they need public property to stay in business.

      Okay, the Government says you MUST abort your child. NOW do you get it?

      by Catskill Julie on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 08:10:13 AM PDT

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    •  This is exactly the part that I don't get... (0+ / 0-)
      He claims the land belongs to the state of Nevada.
      O.K. lets play "pretend the crazy person is right" for a sec.

      So what if it was Nevada land and not Federal land, that still doesn't make it "Bundy" land. When your cows are grazing on someone else's land there are usage fees that need to be paid.

      So ya why can't he keep his cows on his own land if he doesn't want to pay for grazing? f'ing TAKER.

       

      New Plan: Obamacare Old Plan: Nobodycares

      by groupw on Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 11:08:10 AM PDT

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    •  We tried 'do whatever you want on your own land'. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirtandiron, offgrid, missississy, matx

      The result was the Dust Bowl.

      Black blizzards over D.C.

      Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

      by JesseCW on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 06:56:04 PM PDT

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    •  Sorry, but you should give a shit. (0+ / 0-)

      As Blue Tortoise explained here, desert tortoises are an "indicator species," representing, if you will, all the other plants and animals in the Mohave ecosystem. Protecting them protects everything else.
      But why should you care about a desert 3,000 miles away from you at all? (Or the boreal forest currently in the way of getting at the Alberta tar sands, or...) There are so many ways to answer that, that I don't know where to begin. To say that everything is connected to everything else probably sounds like sentimental pastoralism from the perspective of Brooklyn. Maybe I'll just appeal to the idea that my enemy's enemy is my friend. The ideology underlying anti-conservationism is that there is no value but money; and that ideology is as hostile to human life as it is to animal life.

      "Think of something to make the ridiculous look ridiculous." -- Molly Ivins

      by dumpster on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 11:49:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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