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View Diary: I found something I literally hope will be propaganda (124 comments)

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  •  It's probably not propaganda. (11+ / 0-)

    The self-proclaimed leader of the "People's Republic of Donetsk", Gubarev, was(is?) a member of a Russian fascist/Neo-Nazi organization.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:09:18 PM PDT

    •  P.S. I was going to post a diary about this (13+ / 0-)

      earlier, but was waiting on confirmation.

      More on the topic:

      Donetsk Pro-Russians Order Jews to 'Register or be Deported' for Supporting Kiev Rule

      By Gianluca Mezzofiore

      April 16, 2014 15:17 GMT

      snip

      It orders all Jews aged over 16 years old to register before the government building, which has been occupied by pro-Russian insurgents in defiance of Kiev rule.

      Jews would also have to pay a registration fee of $50 (£30) before 3 May and list all real estate and vehicles owned.

      http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/...

      It seems that the open letter that Jewish leaders of Ukraine wrote to Putin has angered some pro-Russians in the east...

      THU MAR 06, 2014 AT 05:27 PM PST
      Ukrainian Jewish Leaders to Putin: You Lie, Leave Ukraine in Peace.
      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:16:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  .. Am I the only one that suddenly feels WW3 (5+ / 0-)

        Coming? Russia needs to back the hell off of Ukraine and quickly, but it's looking increasingly likely that the only thing that will stop them is a show of force, or at the very least U.S. and Nato guards posted on Ukraine's border. Sure, catching individuals along borders is rather difficult and costly, but deterring an entire army would ironically probably cost less.

        •  I've been getting the creeps since the neoUSSR (7+ / 0-)

          sent unmarked military into Crimea.

          One of the problems with the US using nukes in WWII is that the rest of the world knows we will use them.  

          So if there every is a serious military confrontation with a power that really can threaten the US or Europe, would that enemy wait and hold their nukes, or assume the US will unleash their's so why should that enemy wait?

          Also too let's remember that
          1) Duhbya went and played in Russia's back yard in two different countries that are far more in Russia's sphere of influence than in the US's.

          2) This country can't finance a serious war, largely thanks to Duhbya and his credit card financed wars.

          •  Forget the US. If this guy in Donetsk is serious (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DEMonrat ankle biter

            and if Russia backs him up, ISRAEL has the nukes to attack Russia with.

            You don't want a paranoid Bibi thinking a second Shoah is coming in Russia.

            "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

            by zenbassoon on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 06:44:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bibi and Putin seem to be getting along just fine (4+ / 0-)
              Putin to Netanyahu: Ukraine to blame for escalation
              Apr. 16, 2014
              ...
              Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke by phone with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday night, to discuss a number of issues including Iran and the escalating crisis in Ukraine.
              ...
              During the conversation, which was initiated by Netanyahu, the leaders discussed "current issues in bilateral cooperation and on the international agenda, including progress in talks on the Iranian nuclear program," Putin's website reported.

              At Netanyahu's request, Putin provided an assessment of events in Ukraine. "The President of Russia pointed out that the sharp escalation of the crisis is the result of Kiev’s irresponsible policy, which disregards the lawful rights and interests of the country’s Russian-speaking citizens. He stressed the inadmissibility of the current regime’s use of armed forces to suppress public protests in southeastern Ukraine."

              The leaders agreed to continue regular exchanges of opinion on issues of mutual interest.
              ...

              •  So (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DEMonrat ankle biter

                Putin spun his story to Bibi. What a surprise! What precisely do you purport to prove with that particular quote?

                Read it carefully and note in the middle "Putin's website reported". So Haaretz are merely reproducing Putin's version of the meeting almost verbatim and "topping and tailing" the quotes to provide a story.

                "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 08:53:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's a response to zenbassoon's paranoia (0+ / 0-)

                  Reports from all the Israeli news sources do not mention Putin in a negative way. They arrange from neutral to affirmative.

                  Isi Leibler: "Thirty years ago, I would never have visualized myself supporting closer relations between Israel and Russia."

                  So Haaretz are merely reproducing Putin's version of the meeting almost verbatim and "topping and tailing" the quotes to provide a story.
                  Doesn't that tell you something?
                  •  Of course not (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Penny GC

                    Israel has a large number of Russian immigrants whose "welfare" no doubt Putin has expressed concerns about.

                    Zenbassoon may have been a bit hyperbolic but does not deserve the ad hominem attack on him as paranoid.

                    "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                    by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 10:06:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Haaretz has amplified Putin's message (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      cybrestrike

                      "Ukraine to blame for escalation"

                      as did some other Israeli news outlets.

                      http://www.ynetnews.com/...
                      Netanyahu discusses mutual interests with Russia's Putin

                      Putin tells Netanyahu that Kiev regime is to blame for escalations in eastern Ukraine; both agree to cooperation on issues of mutual interest.

                      http://www.jpost.com/...
                      Netanyahu calls Putin, takes neutral stance on Ukraine

                      According to the Kremlin statement, Putin provided an assessment of the processes occurring in Ukraine, and “pointed out that the sharp escalation of the crisis is the result of Kiev’s irresponsible policy, which disregards the lawful rights and interests of the country’s Russian-speaking citizens. He stressed the inadmissibility of the current regime’s use of armed forces to suppress public protests in southeastern Ukraine.”

                      This one's really interesting:
                      http://themadjewess.com/...
                      Netanyahu & Putin In Agreement Over Ukraine

                      Wow, did Netenyahu finally wake up? Don’t know..

                      Zenbassoon may have been a bit hyperbolic but does not deserve the ad hominem attack on him as paranoid.
                      He posted twice that if there were to be any ethnic cleansing by pro-Russian people, Bibi would nuke Russia. Once is hyperbolic....
        •  Yeah. A 'show of force' will definitely work. (4+ / 0-)

          We're way more ready for a protacted war in which we'll lose tens of thousands than Russia is.

          Don't try to bluff people more willing to bear the cost of the fight than you are.

          Overheard a Frenchman trying to explain Thomas Freidman to a Brit "He's got shit for brains -- but that's his asset. That's why he appeals to the US bourgeoisie."

          by JesseCW on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:53:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Cites the same Novisti Danbassa source (6+ / 0-)

        The Kiev sympathetic website.

        "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

        by Paleo on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 05:52:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Update on your link (7+ / 0-)
        UPDATE: Pushilin has denied the Novosti Donbassa's report and assured reporters that the flyer is not from his organisation.
      •  Why would the person in question (4+ / 0-)

        put his signature on something that obviously would surface in the international media that is blatantly antisemetic?

        Cui bono, geniuses.

        http://www.jta.org/...

        The flyers were official-looking documents that carried what was presented as Pushilin’s signature, but the news site tvrain.ru on Wednesday quoted Pushilin as denying any connection to the flyers, calling them a provocation.

        On Tuesday, the news website novosti.dn.ua reported that the flyers were handed out that day by three unidentified men in balaclava masks carrying a flag of the Russian Federation. According to the report, the men distributed the flyers next to a local synagogue. The website quoted unnamed sources from the local Jewish community as saying that the flyers were an attempt to provoke a conflict and blame the attack on the separatists.

        •  This is the second time tonight (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OIL GUY

          that somebody has quote jta, the Finnish news organization. This time it is jta quoting "unnamed sources" quoted by another news source (and referring to unsubstantiated claims made by a second).

          I suggest people look at the map and see where Finland is in relation to Russia. The media there is well aware that the country has a "delicate" relationship with Big Brother Russia and this is reflected in their coverage.

          Do they still sell maps at GUM Claudius?

          "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

          by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 07:13:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So let's assume that the guy hasn't denied it (4+ / 0-)

            No one would sign their name to this sht, it's pure provocation!

            Really doesn't even need to be 'debunked'. It's too obvious.

            •  Nevertheless (0+ / 0-)

              There are certain sources on the internet which one must consider highly dubious but which are widely quoted on here by some very sensitive pro-Putin posters.

              Two of these "sources" are simply Putin's mouthpieces - RT or "Russia Today", its international TV arm and "Voice of Russia" which is its radio arm and spookily similarly named to the Cold War "Voice of America".

              To this should be added JTA in Finland which looks like it is being used to place stories so that the other two can quote them or vice-versa to give the blatant Russian propaganda a veneer of credibility.

              "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

              by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 07:25:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What matters are the facts at hand (5+ / 0-)

                not who is reporting and what slant it's taking.

                Did the guy write it or not? If he didn't, it's fake. Why, in the current climate, woukd he? It would only justify any crackdown on his own affiliates.

                "Nevertheless, "; anything that's not MSM/Kiev regime info is 'dubious'.

                Since very basic logic and facts have become irrelevant to the point of derision on this site, I'll bid you chuckleheads goodnight.

                •  The "facts in hand" (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Lawrence, OIL GUY

                  tend to depend on who is reporting them. Your logic means Fox News is all right,  all the time.

                  I freely admit my bias toward the Maidan Revolution which I think was a total inspiration and shows up the antics of UKIP to be disgraceful bombastery and xenophobia that should be completely alien to politics.  

                  Do I trust the reporting in the Guardian more than Pravda? Yes! Do I trust the reporting in the Independent more than Isvestia? Yes. Do I trust the BBC more than Russia Today? Yes. Are there good reasons for these opinions - most emphatically yes!

                  "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

                  by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 09:16:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Again, Cui Bono? (5+ / 0-)

            Certainly not the poor fool whose 'signature' is on the pamphlets.

            Good grief.

    •  Gubarev is a member of the Russian National Unity (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias, cybrestrike, Johnny Q

      This neo-Nazi group has been banned by the Russian Supreme Court.

      City Nazi Ban Upheld

      MOSCOW -- Russia's Supreme Court on Friday upheld a lower court ruling that bans a neo-Nazi political group from holding its national congress in the capital.

      Moscow Mayor Yury Luzhkov, who has promised to crack down on extremism, banned Russian National Unity from staging its congress in December and said he wouldn't give it a permit to meet in the future.
       

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