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View Diary: Anything Russian 'in czarist times' is fair game in Putin's mind (405 comments)

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  •  Some of the dictators we've opposed were awful (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JayBat, vcmvo2, Ian Reifowitz

    such as Ghadafi. Too bad we weren't able to get regime change in North Korea.

    The reason Putin hasn't had a more aggressive foreign policy is that the west has contained him. But ask the Chechens what they think of Russian aggression.

    •  But in other cases (5+ / 0-)

      we've gotten just the dictators we wanted, i.e. Honduras, where the US-backed military overthrew the elected government of Zelaya.  But we were defending vital American national interests--Zelaya was going to implement a 10 cent a crate raise for banana pickers.  Thank God we stopped that menace to our way of life!

      Oh, like your good friends in the Ukrainian Pravy Sektor Party, you support the Chechen Islamists.  Interesting.  

      Pay no attention to the upward redistribution of wealth!

      by ActivistGuy on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 11:36:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Being elected does not make you a liberal Democrat (0+ / 0-)

        See for example Chavez in Venezuela or Erdogan in Turkey, both of which made the opposition suffer. Erdogan still is.

        And Zelaya was no saint, either.

        •  Unfortunately Gaddafi (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnathan Ivan

          Was "our Guy" from 1969 until 1971, when he started nationalizing the holdings of Western Companies in Libya.

          He was a pia during the 70's but the West worked with him as needed, up until 1979. At that point in time , Lybia started to be referred to as a rogue nation.

          In 2003, a combination of internal reforms, regional foreign policy changes that contributed to African stability, a three year program of reaching out to The West, and the abandonment of his CBW programs, (which were an utter joke), made him "our Guy" again and he was feted, lauded, and hyped as an example of how to come into the fold.

          In 2009, the NGO's Freedom House and the IRI started "teaching democracy" in Libya, when the Arab Spring Hit in 2010, the Libyan Government made many concessions in the hopes that this would forestall similar protests in Libya.

          They didn't. Protests started in Feb 2011, turned violent  by the end of February , with both sides shooting each other, and a Civil War in the east. The UN brought in sanctions and a No Fly Zone, the Lybian Government offered a ceasefire and negotiations, the Rebels refused. NATO came in to enforce the No Fly Zone on March 2nd and was bombing Libyan Forces by March 18th, and conducting Decapitation strikes against the regime.

          Another case of you break it, you bought it, in theory. I haven't seen any solid commitment from the West, in helping the Libyans put their country back together, and I suspect that as long as the oil and gas fields, and the refineries and tanker terminals are under "nominal" Government control, we won't pitch in very much to help.

          Btw, during all this history, the West was the major consumer of all Libya's energy exports, even when Qafaddi was not "our guy".

          •  He was never "our guy" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lawrence

            King Idris was. We had planned to leave Wheelus AFB anyway, but Ghadafi took over and we were out less than a year later.

            We should be doing more to help Libya's new government, though. They are moderate and pro-Western, and have a huge number of problems.

            •  His Government was recognized (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Johnathan Ivan

              By the US and Britain, 24 hours after the coup,

              (The CIA was actually siding with the Black Boots, a different group of Military Plotters, but they were made irrelevant by the Gaddafi coup)

              And he was enough of "our Guy" for the CIA to warn him in late 1968 and early 1969 of two coup plots by the remains of the Black Boots.

              King Idris was our guy, during WWII and in the early years of post colonialism, but his Monarchy was hopelessly corrupt and an anachronism  by the early 1960's.

    •  The Chechens were asked - and decided to stay with (0+ / 0-)

      Russia.

      But ask the Chechens what they think of Russian aggression.
      There was a referendum 2003.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 04:44:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, that's the thing about aggression: (3+ / 0-)
        Russia installed a pro-Moscow Chechen regime. In 2003, a referendum was held on a constitution that reintegrated Chechnya within Russia, but provided limited autonomy. According to the Chechen government, the referendum passed with 95.5% of the votes and almost 80% turnout.[56]
        if the aggression is sufficiently thorough, you're able to have a referendum pass by 95.5% of votes.

        The dossier on my DKos activities during the Bush administration will be presented on February 3, 2014, with an appendix consisting an adjudication, dated "a long time ago", that I am Wrong.

        by Inland on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 05:14:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Or just impost a government, American-Style: (0+ / 0-)

          IE, in the name of human rights.

          Or just do it covertly.  Or overtly.  In the name of fighting (Communism, Terrorism, or a Bad Boogeyman).

          The U.S. Empire made its move.  Now Russia is responding.

          America isn't used to opposition that it can't easily ignore or swipe away.

          The 1% are Purists: They only support Candidates that Deliver Results They Can Bank On. Don't they know they should compromise? /sarcasm

          by Johnathan Ivan on Wed Apr 23, 2014 at 01:08:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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