Skip to main content

View Diary: Anything Russian 'in czarist times' is fair game in Putin's mind (405 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  actually (0+ / 0-)

    those of us who know the context of hitler understand what he preached and when, how he came to power, and what he did immediately upon taking power. you apparently know none of it.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 04:25:21 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, you're wrong. (0+ / 0-)

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 05:39:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i know this is hard (0+ / 0-)

        but even skipping right over his munich era, what had hitler accomplished after ten years in charge? and that's pretending that medvedev was independent of putin, which otherwise would make it fourteen years. but, gee- what did hitler do in his first ten years?

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Sun Apr 20, 2014 at 05:46:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Other than, starting with an abysmal economy, (0+ / 0-)

          putting people to work (whether they liked it or not), building about a quarter of the current Autobahn -- enough to turn it from a test place for fast sports cars to a usable road system, and employ more than 100,000 people in the process, commission the original Volkswagen,  broadcast the first regular television programs and make them available to ordinary Germans by means of public viewing rooms, commission and cause to be built/distributed affordable radios for the population, (for your PETA friends) banned vivisection while introducing restricted hunting seasons and animal conservation, re-armed and raised military forces, invigorating both the German industrial base and employment, brutally won the support of the German army by purging his own supporters (night of the long knives), stage a huge propaganda coup with the 1936 Olympic games, retook and remilitarized the Rhineland without firing a shot,  annexed Austria, executed a non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union, and I'm sure there are many things of which I am completely unaware.

          Rather remarkable considering how inept Hitler actually was.  Probably a reflection of where he started from and how brutal he was willing to be.   Certainly helped along by all that the Nazis stole from German Jews.

          Most amazing is that he came within bad luck, bad weather, and a couple of bad calls of  dominating Europe.  I can't help but wonder what might have happened had he listened to his generals and invaded Moscow before Stalin was able to field the T-34.  All from a man who forced Rommel to commit suicide.

          But I have to wonder: What is the point of your question?
          Russia is not Germany.
          Putin is not Hitler.
          His accomplishments are his accomplishments and Hitler's are Hitler's.

          We all understand that.
          That doesn't make them dissimilar:

          Two brutal men, willing to assassinate and brutally oppress opposition, forging alliances as convenient with local industrialists, each fostering a cult of personality in a near-mythical "leader", each willing to use military force to reclaim territory and assuage the sting of past humiliations.

          If you insist on mirrors to find similarity, you never will.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 07:04:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  people cite hitler for specific reasons (0+ / 0-)

            hitler did specifc things that set him apart from most brutal men. those specific things are what gives hitler's name its totemic power. to ignore those specific things while still trying to use that totemic power is... to be generous... curious.

            michael tilson thomas, the gay jewish conductor of the san francisco symphony, is like hitler.

            a) michael tilson thomas loves wagner.

            b) hitler loved wagner.

            c) therefore, michael tilson thomas is like hitler.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 10:19:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sure. On the other hand, brutal suppression (0+ / 0-)

              of opposition, military incursions into neighboring countries, ethnic cleansing, etc, goes a bit beyond the love of Wagner.

              Could Putin (or Hitler, for that matter) truly become a Hitler in today's world?
              Would he if he could?

              I suspect not, but I also believe the question is not out of bounds.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 12:16:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  again (0+ / 0-)

                if you knew anything at all about hitler and the nazi era, you would understand that hitler didn't "become" hitler. he was hitler, from the start. he went to prison for being hitler. he wrote about being hitler. he ran for office as hitler. from the moment he arrived in public, hitler already was paradigmatically worse than putin.

                The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                by Laurence Lewis on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 12:22:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sigh. (0+ / 0-)

                  Yes. Hitler was always Hitler, just as you have always been you.  But the Hitler that invaded Poland was not the Hitler that began speaking to small groups for the German Worker's Party, or the Hitler that was decorated for valor while running messages in WWI.  For that matter, he wasn't
                  quite the same Hitler who orchestrated that sad little putsch.
                  That Hitler almost gave up at trial before realizing the nature of the stage he held.  The seeds were in place and, ironically, his biggest defeat (at the time) set the stage for his ultimate triumph.

                  And "paradigmatically worse"?

                  Impressive use of syllables without much meaning.
                  Paradigm is a generic term, so I would need to know to which paradigm you refer.

                  Putin is certainly less bombastic and more subtle than Hitler was, but I have no sense of what goes on inside his head.  The Cult of Putin with Bears and shirtless horseback rides doesn't quite square with my image of the old-school Soviet apparatchnik.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 12:39:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  let me make this very simple for you (0+ / 0-)

                    hitler was a violent revolutionary thug nearly a decade before taking power. he wrote about gassing jews before he even entered national politics. he ran explicitly on anti-semitism and militancy. people voted for him knowing his agenda. within months of taking office he had begun his anti-semitic campaign and began building concentration camps. it took all of two years for the nuremberg laws. putin is not just less bombastic and less subtle, he is not genocidal. i know this is hard.

                    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                    by Laurence Lewis on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 12:52:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site