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View Diary: FBI and CIA Desperate Attempts To Cover Tracks (154 comments)

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  •  BTW (9+ / 0-)

    I'm studying Eisenhower now in an attempt to unravel this mess.

    •  You have to go back further than that. (10+ / 0-)

      FDR and Hoover had a cozy relationship.

      •  Hoover had the goods on everyone. (15+ / 0-)

        He was a blackmailer, plain and simple.

        Pope Francis: the Thumb of Christ in the eyes of the Pharisees.

        by commonmass on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 09:23:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Extraneous to the MIC (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        native, side pocket, Nailbanger, koNko

        Which is the problem driving the rest.

        •  Eisenhower may have been the one (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nailbanger

          to come up with the term MIC, but is existed long before that. FDR was the initial architect of it.

          •  I look at it as FDR assembled the ingredients (0+ / 0-)

            and got the oven warm.

            •  His plans and intentions (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              happymisanthropy, koNko

              were more systematic than that. Eleanor was the only civil rights liberal in the Family.  

            •  This book (0+ / 0-)

              http://www.amazon.com/...

              is a fairly through exploration of the matter.

            •  The Expansion/collusion of the MIC (7+ / 0-)

              Most notably became a threat to American Democracy with the "Bomber Gap",

              Widely accepted for several years, the gap was used as a political talking point in order to justify greatly increased defense spending. One result was a massive buildup of the United States Air Force bomber fleet, which peaked at over 2,500 bombers, in order to counter the perceived Soviet threat. Surveillance flights utilizing the Lockheed U-2 aircraft indicated that the bomber gap did not exist. Realizing that mere belief in the gap was an extremely effective funding source, a series of similarly nonexistent Soviet military advances were constructed in a tactic now known as "policy by press release." These included claims of a nuclear-powered bomber,[1] supersonic VTOL flying saucers,[2] and only a few years later, the "missile gap."
              http://en.m.wikipedia.org/...

              While lying to the American Public has always been profitable, (eg. PT Barnum), the US Military and Industrial Complex came late to the game.

              By the time of the "Missile Gap",

              The missile gap was the Cold War term used in the US for the perceived superiority of the number and power of the USSR's missiles in comparison with its own. This gap in the ballistic missile arsenals only existed in exaggerated estimates made by the Gaither Committee in 1957 and in United States Air Force (USAF) figures. Even the contradictory CIA figures for the USSR's weaponry, which showed a clear advantage for the US, were far above the actual count. Like the bomber gap of only a few years earlier, it was later demonstrated that the gap was known to be illusionary from the start, and was being used solely as a political tool, an example of policy by press release.
              http://en.m.wikipedia.org/...

              By the end of the "Missile Gap", all of the players were in place. Alphabet Agency Spooks leaking disinformation, compliant Presstitutes hyping the threat, Politicians waving the flag and using Strong on Defence to get elected, the allotting hundreds of billions of dollars, Military Branches infighting and backstabbing in public over the loot in the trough, and the Military Contractors riding the gravy train.

              •  Part of the missile gap was true, but irrelevant a (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                hamjudo, Just Bob, koNko

                s time went on: namely, throw weight.  Soviet missiles could launch much larger payloads, in part bc they had too since the tech was far behind US in things like miniaturization and materials.  That mattered in 1960 bc warheads were a lot heavier than they would be even a few years latter. (The H bomb was only 8 years old then.)  In addition, there was little understanding of the stupidity of 'super' yield warheads as a substitute for accuracy.  (The Soviet's tested a 50 MT bomb and planned on a 100 MT at one pt, not really understanding that the sheer size of devastation it would cause made it insane for many reasons, even just to test it.)

                That said, the SS-20/22 (their 'super-heavy) became the stuff of nightmares for US planners as their accuracy improved and MIRV tech was adopted bc of the inevitability of it all but destroying US landbased missiles in a 1st strike.  Unnecessary nightmares, of course, bc our sub fleet was never compromised and there was no realistic chance the US could not respond to even a 'limited' counterforce attack by citybusting - not to mention environmental effects such a nuclear winter.  

                Nonetheless, from a purely very short-term military view, the 'gap' in throw weight mattered until the late 70s or so, when US tech made accuracy so high that even (relatively) small yield (250k) warheads would almost certainly destroy Soviet silos and thus missiles.  Tho this was always justified as a 'counterforce deterrent' (i.e., deterring the temptation of destroying US forces and then confronting us with their remaining missiles) the Soviet's quite logically saw it as US 1st strike capacity (since almost all their missiles were landbased then, which lead to their Typhoon SLBM, which lead to our Los Angeles class attack sub to the happydance of many defense contractors).  The consequence was, as with so much of the arms race, theoretically justified fears of gaps in favor of one party lead to responses that in turn created the same on the other side and the deathmachines piled ever high in an insane spiral.

                Moral: what seems entirely rational in the short-term is likely to be utterly insane in the longer, especially when dealing with megadeath tech.

                OTOH, it did get JFK elected. :)

                •  While the Buran did have a much (4+ / 0-)

                  Larger "throw weight", it was impossible to hide, due to its size, as the Soviet Union could not afford silo's, and it took 20 hours to fuel and launch. As a result, from the moment they were deployed, the Aegis satellites had them in view and they were extremely vulnerable to a counter strike.

                  The USSR capped production at 4 missiles, at a time when the US had 130.

                  And not once, during the Cold War,  did the Soviet combined "throw weight " even approach parity with the US, the closest they ever got, was 1:6 in 1976, and keep in mind, there were also the French and English missiles and bombers.

                  While the Bomber Gap could, if one were being exceedingly generous, be excused due to a lack of Intel and highly inflated production estimates, the U2's proved the myth, yet the B52's continued to be ramped up for several years.

                  By the time of the Buran, the U2's, the Ageis satellites ensured that the information was known. The NIE capped the production at 25, max.

                  Propagandists pushed the number as high as 1500, for the benifit of the MIC.

                  Under Reagan, Team B, (the Ususal Suspects, ) was used to inflate the SS numbers and threat, to push Starwars and New ICBM's along with Tripwire deployments of short range nuclear armed BM's to Europe.

                  For a list of The Ususal Suspects, see
                  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/...

                  Team B was so successful in pushing the propaganda, that they brought it back to push Dubya Dubya Me Too. This time as the Office of Special Plans,
                  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/...

                  The reason why the US, since the mid 1950's has had the same recurring 'Gates, financial Collapses, the same Spying Scandals, the same MIC corruption, is that early on, when it became clear aspects of the system were broken, almost nothing effective or permanent was done to fix the system.

                  That is why the same names pop up, time and time again In the scandal histories,

                  •  No one had missiles in silos in 1960, the election (0+ / 0-)

                    of the 'missile gap'.  The US was just starting to put Atlas's in what were in reality 'bunkers' that were nothing but big fat targets.  Even the Titan I had to be cranked above ground for launch.

                    As for the rest: you didn't read my whole comment did you?  Gap in throw weight or not, it actually did not matter and in fact lead to the counterproductive and destabilizing arms race.  The notion that the USSR would detonate a hundreds of nukes over the US heartland and we would not respond against their cities bc the Soviet targets were our silos was insane.

                    As for the Buran or actual deployment #s, the problem is that these programs take time and planning is based on 'enemy' potential.  IOW, you plan not for what your opponent has but for the worse case scenario of what he can have at the future time of conflict.  Now, that generally works in conventional warfare planning.  However, as I have repeated said history shows it to be insanely counterproductive and destabilizing policy with nuclear weapons.  The better policy proved to be survivability of enough delivery systems for apocalyptic counterattack thru hardening and subs.  Lots cheaper too.

                    As for your system critique of the US security apparatus: I did not address it, nor will I.  Tho, personally, I believe it to be a pretty much inevitable consequence of world empire.  But that is a far longer discussion for another time.

          •  Well, that little thing called World War II (6+ / 0-)

            led to that. FDR was dead before the war was over, and that the MIC wasn't dismantled can hardly be put on him.

            We do have Truman's later regrets about creating the CIA, which he wrote in an op-ed on Dec 22, 1963 appearing in the morning edition Washington Post. Which, oddly, disappeared in the later editions and was never picked up by any other paper.

            Sort of like when President Carter said recently "The United States is no longer a functioning democracy" over in Germany and was only cited in US press as an example of why he was a miserable President.

            The Truman op-ed concludes with

            We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and open society. There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.


            A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. -- Firefly

            by Jim P on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 05:45:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The problem with building things (6+ / 0-)

              is that no matter what your intentions were, they seldom get torn down. The people who come later find other uses for them. The issue here is no a matter of personal guilt and bad intent of specific presidents. It is realizing how deeply embedded the whole thing has become in the American system of government. It didn't just happen on 9/11.

              •  Yes, well through 4 generations. (6+ / 0-)

                People overlook the period, too, where the threat of nuclear war was the daily background for two generations.

                That had tremendous conditioning/acceptance value for the MIC. Or was that, as I've read, in Eisenhower's original notes 'the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex'?

                To this moment, a large part of our good-paying jobs exist because of militarization, and it's clearly evolved to where Congress people have voters to lose if that goes away.

                Sigh. All the top people are playing for petty advantage.


                A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned. -- Firefly

                by Jim P on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 07:46:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  The South American experience, (4+ / 0-)

      like in Argentina and Chile, should be looked at too.

      America needs to pick up transitional justice concepts, essentially.

      •  One more element is post-WWII recruitment (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PhilJD, Don midwest, koNko

        of Nazi intelligence officers from the ruins of Hitler's apparatus. Smart guys vital to anti-communist operations, but maybe not exactly champions of liberty.

        •  Nope, (5+ / 0-)

          The Gehlen Networks were completely penetrated and known by the Soviets by 1944.

          The recruitment of Nazi spies and scientists, exposed US intel, US scientific progress, and propagated a immoral Authotarianism and rabid anti communism through out the US political, Military, Industrial, Intelligence and Scientific communities.

          A lot of the Nazi "spies", were just SS Functionaries with really creative resume writing skills. A Galacia Division SS supply Sargent reinvented himself as an "expert" on Yugoslav anti communist groups, then proceeded to blow up pre-existing MI6 and OSS networks in Yugoslavia. The guy had never been to Yugoslavia in his life. But, he took a lede from his interrogator and turned it into a career.

          It created what is now called "blowback", through out much of the Warsaw Pact and Latin America, (see Klaus Barbie's post war career",

          And it is probably best expressed in the "we had to destroy the village, in order to save it", mentality in post War US militarism, a mind set  not seen since the Philippines.

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