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View Diary: Letter to My Tea Party Brother in Law (41 comments)

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  •  I feel your pain (10+ / 0-)

    and support your need to rant a bit here.

    As a group, though, we need to be careful not to turn into haters, too.

    One thing I struggle with is how there seems to be so much hatred pointed toward President Obama and Democrats.  It seems completely unreasonable to hate a president who shows so much compassion the way I've experienced coming from folks on the right.

    Does anyone understand why?  (P.S. When I asked the otherwise very nice woman about it, she insisted it had nothing to do with race - it was just about how he behaves.)

    Understanding is limited by perspective. Perspective is limited by experience. America is a great place to live but it limits our ability to understand.

    by CindyV on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 11:42:49 AM PDT

    •  CindyV: no. "be careful not to turn into haters, (18+ / 0-)

      too" is the same sort of thinking that drove the appeasers who enabled Hitler to rise to power in the 1930s in Germany.

      Stand up to hate.
      Call it what it is.
      Point it out.
      Refute its claims as the lies they are.
      Rinse, repeat.

      Hate is stubborn. Truth must have stronger champions than lies.

      LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

      by BlackSheep1 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 12:05:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Stand up: I agree (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FloridaSNMOM, wasatch, VClib, 84thProblem

        Hate back: I don't agree.

        Sorry if it sounded like I was opposed to the rant.  The rant was a much needed vent.  And standing up to the brother-in-law's bullying: also much needed.  We should not sit quietly and let someone do that to us.

        We just don't want to take that path so far that we turn into haters who spew so much we aren't thinking straight.

        Understanding is limited by perspective. Perspective is limited by experience. America is a great place to live but it limits our ability to understand.

        by CindyV on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 12:57:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Bullies will always accuse those who don't submit (9+ / 0-)

          as haters.

          We must stop being intimidated.
          We must stop giving way to the bullies.
          We must stop not fighting back for fear of going overboard.
          All these behaviors help them and their cause, at the cost of us and our causes.

          LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

          by BlackSheep1 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 01:11:22 PM PDT

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          •  That's not what worries me (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib, 84thProblem

            I'm not concerned with their claims about us.

            Please stand up.  I support that.  Just be tolerant enough not to turn into a hater.

            We all ended up where we are due to what we experienced in our own lives.  Even the person espousing the wackiest views has a personal history that caused them to reach that point.  We can disagree with their beliefs/views, and we can reject their abusive behavior, but we shouldn't forget that they're just people who think they are right.  No reason to hate them.  Reject their assertions and stand up to bullying, but do not hate.

            Understanding is limited by perspective. Perspective is limited by experience. America is a great place to live but it limits our ability to understand.

            by CindyV on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 03:35:27 PM PDT

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            •  What worries me is that we are always and forever (4+ / 0-)

              going to be so careful not to become haters -- even of truly hateful, hate-worthy things -- that we are INEFFECTIVE.

              LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

              by BlackSheep1 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 03:52:08 PM PDT

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              •  They are hateful but not worthy of hate (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                84thProblem

                We should feel sorry for people who do themselves so much harm, and as much as possible prevent them from harming others.

                It is easy to suppose that only hating back can motivate us sufficiently. Gandhi and MLK demonstrated otherwise, following examples that have accumulated over thousands of years.

                Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                by Mokurai on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 10:39:43 PM PDT

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      •  Thanks, I Have Reached that Conclusion (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MyLifeInKenya, OHdog

        Were the union soldiers in the civil war haters? No, they defended us and freed slaves.

        That is what we are facing now. Thanks for the comment.

        •  Your letter is way too lond and repetitive (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kevskos, 84thProblem

          If you edit it to three paragraphs your BIL might read it and it would have much more punch.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 08:36:16 PM PDT

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          •  Typo alert - too long (0+ / 0-)

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 10:40:52 PM PDT

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          •  There is psychological research showing that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            84thProblem, VClib

            the most effective way to counter false beliefs and hatred in conversation is to state your point clearly and succinctly once, and then leave. Anything more just gets their backs up. It does not work all that often, but neither does anything else.

            Preventing behavior is a completely different problem. Within your own spaces, you may feel free to draw and enforce the line.

            In a social or political situation involving lots of other people, other measures may be available.

            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

            by Mokurai on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 10:43:59 PM PDT

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    •  "When I asked the otherwise very nice (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shippo1776, Paragryne

      woman about it, she insisted it had nothing to do with race - it was just about how he behaves."

      Um, "how he behaves"?  What is he, three?  Is he pooping on the floor of the White House in front of the Prime Minster of Japan?    Just what is so offensive about his behavior to make someone hate him?

      I'll let you know what I think by telling you this: my daughter and I were making Easter eggs today and we both remarked the eggs came out well because they were such pretty COLORs.

      Get it now?

    •  They say that they are not racists (0+ / 0-)

      They hate his White half just as much as his Black half.

      My explanation comes from three sources.

      "The senses are on fire", said the Buddha, "with the fires of greed, hatred, and delusion." These are the causes of suffering within oneself, and as inflicted on others.

      The Theory of the Leisure Class, by Thorstein Veblen, is mostly about the imperative to be richer and more important than other people, and to think oneself morally superior. Not everybody is subject to it in the Republican form, of course, although everybody has it come up. If you have compassion, you can turn away such thoughts when they do arise. Much of this comes under Conspicuous Consumption, publicly demonstrating that you are richer, more important, and morally superior by engaging in highly visible waste, and believing that productive labor is unworthy, in contrast with the demonstration of prowess—force and fraud.

      Mitt Romney's deliberate inversion of Makers (workers) and Takers (the 1%, especially when engaged in financial shenanigans) is a clear instance of this.

      When Prophecy Fails, by Leon Festinger et al., describes what happen when people's carefully constructed worlds fall apart, and they go into Cognitive Dissonance between the facts and whatever is most important to them, denying or excusing vociferously whatever is plain to see.

      This all has roots in the Southern apologies for slavery based on the Bible, which have morphed into ever nastier bigotry, misogyny, and Mammonism since segregation was outlawed and overt racism became socially taboo.

      Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

      by Mokurai on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 10:36:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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