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View Diary: Cartoon: Let's talk about checks (38 comments)

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  •  Two Factors Apply (6+ / 0-)

    For management, secrecy enhances control. For the workers, lack of secrecy can lead to jealousy, among other things.

    "A famous person once said, 'You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.' But as I once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like." – Max Headroom

    by midnight lurker on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 07:45:17 AM PDT

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    •  Jealousy persists regardless in the hearts of (3+ / 0-)
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      JeffW, twigg, northsylvania

      those prone to it.

      If they aren't jealous of pay, they'd be jealous of awards, or projects, or something.

      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

      by GreenMother on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 09:29:27 AM PDT

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      •  That's True (2+ / 0-)
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        GreenMother, twigg

        "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"

        But I still maintain that my actual pay isn't anybody else's business, unless I choose to share it with them (and I won't.) I have seen numerous instances where dissent and dissatisfaction have arisen when discussions turn to "How come so-and-so makes this-or-that?"

        Knowing pay ranges for certain jobs is a good thing, I think. But knowing someone else's individual pay is not (especially if the information is second-hand.) I have personally refused to enter those sorts of discussions. If someone asked me "How come, etc,?" My immediate reply has always been, "How do you know?"

        "A famous person once said, 'You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.' But as I once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like." – Max Headroom

        by midnight lurker on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 10:17:29 AM PDT

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        •  understood, but isn't the freedom to discuss nice? (2+ / 0-)
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          twigg, northsylvania

          "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

          by GreenMother on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 12:52:04 PM PDT

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          •  Okay (1+ / 0-)
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            midnight lurker

            How about the company posting the salary/pay scale for each category without names attached?  Maybe you feel even this violates your privacy, but I think Lilly had the right to know whether or not she was being paid fairly, don't you?  Knowing how underpaid women are in this country, I believe that transparency is the only way to expose and solve this problem.  It shouldn't be necessary, but, unfortunately, it is.

            •  Personally, I'm Fine with That (0+ / 0-)

              I think it's the best way to go. But there are too many complicating factors when one person knows exactly what another is making without the second person having revealed it intentionally. Or even worse, when somehow a third party found out and revealed it to the first. I have known people that try to figure out ways to do that out of some unknown personality maladjustment.

              "A famous person once said, 'You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.' But as I once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like." – Max Headroom

              by midnight lurker on Wed Apr 23, 2014 at 06:15:01 AM PDT

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        •  Interesting. (2+ / 0-)
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          raspberryberet, drklassen

          When grades come out during a class, the smart ones learn what the prof is looking for and go and do likewise. Sometimes their own beliefs are strong enough that they don't, and are willing to take the hit grade-wise. Why is working for a boss or a corporation any different?
          Salaries are a form of external validation: how well you fit in with a corporation and how well you work for your immediate boss (or whoever does your evaluations). In a perfect world, where something like health care wouldn't tie you to a specific employment circumstance, you could find your own niche, and be paid accordingly. The cult of secrecy about salaries is only another form of manipulation.

          "The 'Middle' is a crowded place - that is where the effective power is - the extreme right and left might annoy governments, but the middle terrifies them." Johnny Linehan

          by northsylvania on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 02:46:29 PM PDT

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    •  If they had decent management (4+ / 0-)

      then they wouldn't have to worry about the jealousy aspect.  And the sour grapes, jealous person would be the one to be shown the door.  

      I know that when I first started out in the work force (oh so many years ago,) it was common practice in the work place to NEVER discuss pay.  And since I was young, (and didn't make much) I was fine with that.  When I joined the Navy, you knew what EVERYONE made, based on rank and time in service.  That was a pretty big shock to this young woman.

      Now, I'm an accountant, so I know what everyone makes.  And we have that one whiner.  Ugh!  And for that reason, management has made it against the rules to discuss pay. Because apparently it is easier to silence all than just the one.  Weak!

    •  Secrecy (2+ / 0-)
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      raspberryberet, drklassen

      also allows management to make arbitrary decisions.  There are some workplaces this can't happen, because there's a pay scale based on job classification.  But where I work, whenever a new position is created, the boss gets to decide what it's worth.  He's an okay guy, but I don't have 100% confidence in his judgment.

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