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View Diary: Keystone: Can we even admit that this is political? (36 comments)

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  •  You said: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Neuroptimalian, ban nock, bailey22
    Tar Sand Bitumen is just too abrasive for a single walled pipe
    This is an urban legend which has been conclusively repudiated in a National Research Council Report:

    http://www8.nationalacademies.org/...

    http://www.nap.edu/...

    Heavy sour crude from tar sands did not cause the pipeline failure in the Kalamazoo River spill.   That event was caused by external corrosion and stress cracking, so tar sands crude was not the cause of that incident (but certainly did severely contribute to the severity of the effects of the spill because of the physical properties of tar sands crude).

    You can easily verify this by reading the national transportation safety board report on that spill.

    •  The Kalamazoo River incident happened when (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sunspots

      that pipeline was less than a year old. If it was an external problem as you contend, I don't want the same people running this sludge through our heartland and over important water sources. Why would you?

      Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

      by RMForbes on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 05:17:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The pipeline segment that broke in the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bailey22

        Kalamazoo river event was over 40 years old and the corrosion occurred because of a minor defect in the plastic coating that had been applied to the pipeline when it was constructed.

        I'm more concerned about the pipeline crossings over the Great Lakes connecting channels and Michigan rivers, and such crossings should be converted to and required by law to use pipeline bridges rather than submerged pipe, as now recommended by governor candidate Mark Schauer.

        •  Come on, you don't need to lie (0+ / 0-)

          The Kalamazoo River spill happened about 4 years ago and not 40. That particular pipeline was less than a year old when it happened. There were over 70 spills on this new pipeline, that was supposedly state of the art, in it's first year of service.

          Like I said before, the Kalamazoo River needs to be cleaned up before we allow another larger version of this pipeline moving Tar Sands Bitumen. The exemption also needs to be removed, these companies need to contribute to the spill fund if bitumen flows through these pipes too.

          Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

          by RMForbes on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 06:27:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are seriously mis-informed about Line 6B (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bailey22

            The pipeline that broke in the Kalamazoo River spill event in 2010 was over 40 years old.....it was NOT less than a year old.....you are spreading erroneous claims and bad information by saying the Enbridge Kalamazoo River spill occurred in a one year old line.

            Enbridge Line 6B is being replaced, but the replacement pipeline has not started operating yet.

            There is not any regulatory basis to require that the KXL pipeline be denied because Enbridge has not yet completed cleanup of the Kalamazoo River.

            You can easily verify all of the matters about Line 6b by reading the NTSB report on the 2010 accident.  If you read that report, you'll also see how Enbridge was completely irresponsible and that this entire pipeline accident could have been prevented and avoided.

            How about spending some time educating yourself instead of tossing off flip accusations of dishonesty?  

            You'll be more effective in environmental stewardship if you take some time to become informed;  most notably you'll see that the tar sands heavy sour crude did not have anything to do with the physical cause of the Enbridge Line 6B accident:

            http://www.ntsb.gov/...

            https://www.ntsb.gov/...

            http://www.ntsb.gov/...

            http://www.ntsb.gov/...

            •  You miss the point and it's not completely (0+ / 0-)

              true that bitumen had nothing to do with this accident.

              Bitumen slurry requires both higher pressures and temperatures than sweet crude. It is very likely that the higher pressures and temperatures require to push tar sands bitumen through this pipe was at least a contributing factor in the pipeline failure. It was gross criminal engineering malfeasance to push bitumen at high pressure through a grossly under engineered and poorly maintained pipeline designed for sweet crude.

              Until these companies can prove they can safely move bitumen through a pipeline without creating these types of disasters we shouldn't allow an extra large version. At least not a single wall pipe. And yes they also need to prove they can effectively clean a spill up before they be allowed to build new larger pipelines.

              Why don't you address the exemption to the spill cleanup fund enjoyed by the bitumen producers?

              Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

              by RMForbes on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 09:04:02 PM PDT

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        •  It's sludge when it leaks out of the pipeline (0+ / 0-)

          which will happen. Tar Sands slurry (dilbit) is not precisely the same thing as heavy sour crude either. Various unknown proprietary chemicals have to be added to the semi-solid bitumen so that it will flow through the hundreds of miles of pipeline. It is similar but not the same thing as the sour crude oil extracted (fracked) from the North Dakota and Montana shale oil fields.

          Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

          by RMForbes on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 09:41:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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