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View Diary: After Sandy Hook, Jack Kingston wanted a solution to gun violence … today, not so much (141 comments)

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  •  Yes, let's let the date lead. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrankRose, lyvwyr101, ChuckChuckerson

    From 1993 to 2011, close to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of nonfatal firearm crimes were committed with a handgun, not an AR-15 with an extended clip, yet that seems to be the focus of all of the recent legislation addressing firearm violence.  

    Where are the efforts to combat the proliferation of unlicensed and unregistered handguns?  Lost in the rush to make the evening news with feel good legislation that would not have made a bit of a difference at Sandy Hook.  
    There is no focused effort to address the problem of gun violence except grandstanding.  A person with a pump action shotgun loaded with "OO" buck"could wipe out a 30 student classroom in about five seconds, much faster than someone with a pistol or an assault rifle, yet there is no focus on shotguns.  

    The data says that we are focused on the wrong things.  Mental health care availability, enhanced firearm education, classroom safety training and mandatory minimum levels of insurance coverage for gun owners would be a good start.

    If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

    by SpamNunn on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 11:35:14 AM PDT

    •  The conservative case for an awb, maybe this (10+ / 0-)

      will change your mind:

      A conservative case for an assault weapons ban
      Op-Ed
      If we can't draw a sensible line on guns, we may as well call the American experiment in democracy a failure.
      December 20, 2012|By Larry Alan Burns
      Last month, I sentenced Jared Lee Loughner to seven consecutive life terms plus 140 years in federal prison for his shooting rampage in Tucson. That tragedy left six people dead, more than twice that number injured and a community shaken to its core.

      Loughner deserved his punishment. But during the sentencing, I also questioned the social utility of high-capacity magazines like the one that fed his Glock. And I lamented the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban in 2004, which prohibited the manufacture and importation of certain particularly deadly guns, as well as magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

      by We Shall Overcome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 11:37:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Court questioned the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ChuckChuckerson, FrankRose

        Constitutional right.  The measure of something's social utility is how well it maximizes the happiness and reduces the suffering of the population, as a whole.   The Founders have already determined that the social utility of the individual right to keep and bear arms outweighs the right of people who don't like guns to ban their use and possession by those who care to keep and bear them.  

        The judge should have kept his personal thoughts to himself, and not editorialized when presented with an opportunity to widely disseminate a personal opinion not shared by Congress or the Supreme Court.  

        This does not change my mind at all.  If someone wants to kill thirty kids, no one can stop them, and there are a lot of ways to make that happen that no one seems to proposed banning.   Anyone can buy gunpowder, pressure cookers, ball bearings, fuses, timers, automobiles and poison or even a simple book of matches.    It's scary to think that's true, but it is.      

        If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

        by SpamNunn on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 11:50:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Take Denver or Los Angeles in the 1990s - AWBs (5+ / 0-)

          helped reduce the suffering and raised the happiness of a lot of people. Those were/are city, state and national AWBs.

          Those cities had horrible gang-related mass shooting violence and the AWB help to end it.

          Another subset of mass shootings - the "public square" mass shootings that take place at malls, offices, schools, places of worship, military/navy bases, etc. — could be similarly addressed with an AWB.

          These are the public commons - areas that should be free from this type of terror-inducing violence. I don't care if they are a tiny % of the overall killings. It's the commons and those events are terror-like in that they are devastating - 26 at Sandy Hook, 32 at Virginia Tech, 12/56 (injured) at Aurora and so on.

          The bombs in Boston killed 2 and the were deemed WMD by the FBI.

          I guess you can't classify those shootings as terrorist acts, because there is no political or ideological intent, but the violence that is inflicted is similar to bombs going off.

          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

          by We Shall Overcome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 12:11:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  All of the military base shooting were done with (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ChuckChuckerson, FrankRose

            pistols.  The Virginia Tech shootings?  Pistols, too.  An AWB would not have saved a single life at any of those places.

            Similarly, studies by the United States Department of Justice and the National Institute of Justice have found no statistically significant evidence that either the Federal assault weapons ban or the ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds had reduced gun murders.

            Source:  DOJ

            The one common thread?  Crazy people with an urge to kill.  

            If you get confused, listen to the music play - R. Hunter

            by SpamNunn on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 12:19:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Navy Yard was a shotgun - and semi-auto (4+ / 0-)

              + high cap magazine. That combination is dangerous and unusual, almost like machine guns and in fact can be manipulated to replicate a machine gun. Machine guns were banned in 1934.

              "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

              by We Shall Overcome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 12:21:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It was an 8 shot pump-action shotgun. (0+ / 0-)

                Neither semi-auto nor hi-cap nor does it have a removable magazine.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 12:43:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes. (3+ / 0-)

                  "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                  by We Shall Overcome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 01:15:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  ... (2+ / 0-)

                  Navy Yard was a Remington 870 shotgun - and semi-auto Beretta M9 + high cap magazine / 15 rounds.

                  "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

                  by indycam on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 01:32:54 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  We Shall Overcome was specifically talking (0+ / 0-)

                    about the shotgun.

                    If you're not willing to follow a thread don't respond to it.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 01:36:45 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Do you disagree with what I wrote ? Boo Hoo ! (3+ / 0-)
                      We Shall Overcome was specifically talking
                      about the shotgun.
                      Prove it . And don't just use your own personal opinion .
                      If you're not willing to follow a thread don't respond to it.
                      Is that a rule you live by ? If it is , I've got news for you , you go off on tangents , you misunderstand what is being said and then say wildly inappropriate things based on your misunderstandings .

                      "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

                      by indycam on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 01:46:34 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Actually, this was a punctuation error, let me (0+ / 0-)

                      re-write:

                      Navy Yard was a shotgun, and semi-auto + high capacity magazine — that combination is dangerous and unusual, almost like machine guns and in fact can be manipulated to replicate a machine gun. Machine guns were banned in 1934.
                      But, I find it interesting that you assumed to know what I meant without asking.

                      "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                      by We Shall Overcome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 02:23:06 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I stand corrected. (0+ / 0-)

                        With the prior comments focusing in the shotgun I assumed that's what you were talking about.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 02:37:37 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Holy sh!t! Has this ever happened - you admit (3+ / 0-)

                          you were mistaken?

                          I'm saving the link to this thread, it might be worth something one day.

                          "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                          by We Shall Overcome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 02:46:38 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  It has happened more than once. (0+ / 0-)

                            I deal in facts.
                            I don't desperately cling to things that are incorrect.

                            You should try it instead of meta sometime.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 03:07:29 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Here's an interesting fact - the NRA just did some (4+ / 0-)

                            gun grabbin'

                            The NRA Quietly Backs Down On Domestic Violence
                            WASHINGTON -- For nearly a decade, the National Rifle Association successfully blocked a bill in Washington state that would have required alleged domestic abusers to surrender their firearms after being served with a protective order. Only those actually convicted of felony domestic violence, the nation's largest gun lobby argued, should be made to forfeit their gun rights.

                            This past year, the NRA changed its tune. As the bill, HB 1840, once again moved through the state legislature, the gun lobby made a backroom deal with lawmakers, agreeing to drop its public opposition to it in exchange for a few minor changes. This February, with the NRA's tacit approval, the bill sailed through the state legislature in a rare unanimous vote.

                            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

                            Jeez - if you can't trust the gun lobby to not take away the rights of innocent Americans, who can you trust?

                            "Looking back over a lifetime, you see that love was the answer to everything." — Ray Bradbury

                            by We Shall Overcome on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 03:34:37 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He doesn't 'cling to things that are incorrect'. (3+ / 0-)

                            Only to things that are inaccurate.  Those he clings to.  If they serve his gun fetish.  But he doesn't cling to incorrect things, at least not desperately so.  

                            "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

                            by Calvino Partigiani on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 07:32:54 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  ... (4+ / 0-)

                            "I deal in facts." No you don't .
                            "I don't desperately cling to things that are incorrect." Yes you do .

                            "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

                            by indycam on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 07:50:40 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Thanks for sharing your opinion. (0+ / 0-)

                            Do tell how has your viewpoint on this issue been working out?
                            The reason why my predictions on the political implications of this issue is because I use facts & you use feelings.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Wed Apr 23, 2014 at 10:58:48 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Once again I ask (0+ / 0-)

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            What is my "viewpoint" on gun control ? I bet you can't even come close to saying accurately what my "viewpoint" on gun control is . I bet you can't even get in the ballpark .
                            ....................
                            The reason why my predictions on the political implications of this issue is because I use facts & you use feelings.
                            Would you like a chance to rewrite this ? Or do you feel that what you wrote was good enough ?

                            How many shots was that 870 ?
                            What did "We Shall Overcome" say ?
                            "anti-gun rights person" Meteor Blades ?

                            You "use" facts .

                            "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

                            by indycam on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 09:52:17 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  "It was an 8 shot" (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  i saw an old tree today

                  "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

                  by indycam on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 02:33:07 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Some will know by looking at it , 6 + 1 = 7 (3+ / 0-)

                    Some will not . It is not an 8 round shotgun .
                    The standard 870 was / is 4 + 1 = 5
                    The tactical has a "2-shot magazine extension" making it a 4 + 2 + 1 = 7

                    Here is an ad for one .
                    http://www.gunauction.com/...

                    Guns For Sale - Remington Arms Co, Inc. -- Remington 870 Express Tactical 12 Gauge 18

                    For Sale is a New: The Remington 5077 870 Express Tactical Shotgun in 12 Gauge features an 18-inch barrel, black finish, black synthetic stock, bead sights, cylinder bore, 3" chamber, black rubber recoil pad, 2-shot magazine extension, an overall length of 38.5 inches, an unloaded weight of 7.25 lbs, and a 6+1 round capacity Its versatility, reliability and uncompromising quality make the Model 870 Express a shotgun you can’t afford to be without. The Model 870 Express Synthetic is an excellent choice as a permanent camp shotgun or as the foundation for your own personalized design. America's best selling shotgun for over 50 years, the Model 870's dependability is legendary. SPECIFICATIONS: • BRAND: ………….. Remington • MODEL: ………….. 870 Express Tactical • TYPE: ………….….. Shotgun • CALIBER: ………… 12 Gauge • FINISH: …………… Black Matte • ACTION: ………….. Pump Action • STOCK: …………… Black Synthetic • CAPACITY: ………. 6+1 • CHOKES: …………. Cylinder Bore • SIGHTS: …………... Bead • BARREL LENGTH: ... 18" • OVERALL LENGTH: .. 8.5" • WEIGHT: ………….. 7.5 lbs Item is for sale locally and auction will end if sold. ITEM SOLD 7/17/12

                    "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

                    by indycam on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 03:22:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Sir, you, individually, hereby purport to overrule (2+ / 0-)

          Marbury v. Madison. How very self aggrandizing of you. It's been established constitutional law since clear back shortly after the beginning that the founders fixed precisious few things in stone for ever more. And one of the more perceptive points of the Heller Majority is that the founders specifically did not do what you claim.

          You really need to come to grips with nuance if you want to write about subjects like this.

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 07:16:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You're right, so why did the NRA stop it? (0+ / 0-)

      America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, uh...um...and if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

      by Back In Blue on Tue Apr 22, 2014 at 12:59:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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