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View Diary: Pushback is building after privatization horror stories spread (163 comments)

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  •  Not to be a downer because I agree with all (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    barleystraw

    the complaints here, but Uncle Sam's "hard-earned dollars"?

    What does that mean?

    97% of all money is digital, its fiat, and it costs the issuer (Congress) almost nothing to keystroke money into existence. Thats all deficit spending is, creating new money for the benefit of the private sector (and too often wealthy interests of course).

    "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

    by Auburn Parks on Wed Apr 23, 2014 at 06:40:50 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's not "free" though (0+ / 0-)

      Printing money, unless matched by growth, simply feeds inflation and devalues the dollar.

      If you do it too much, you will not be able to afford imports, inflation will rise and the next recession will be upon us.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      Who is twigg?

      by twigg on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 04:51:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Inflation has no correlation with (0+ / 0-)

        the national so-called "debt" since 1971 and the end of the gold standard:

        https://research.stlouisfed.org/...=

        Increased growth comes from increased employment, so the Govt has a responsibility to use its monopoly authority to create our national currency to ensure full employment.

        Until we reach full capacity and employment, increased deficits will lead to more growth and output, which means there wont be any inflation.

        WE ARE ALMOST NEVER AT FULL CAPACITY!

        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

        by Auburn Parks on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:18:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Where is your evidence that increased deficits (0+ / 0-)

        will not matched with growth right now?

        Do you have any?

        Because no offense but the argument that you just made is the same one that right wingers make.

        "Deficit spending = inflation.....AAAHAHHHHHHHAHAAHAH!!"

        When in the real world it doesn't work like that.

        http://soberlook.com/...

        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

        by Auburn Parks on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:21:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When you have quite finished ... (0+ / 0-)

          You can't get something for nothing. Period.

          The laws on perpetual motion are quite clear.

          I didn't say a single word about deficit spending, not one. I said that too much quantitative easing, as it is euphemistically called, leads to inflation and a devaluation of a currency, which it does.

          You are free to deny the bleeding obvious until you are blue in the face, it will not change the facts.

          However, deficit spending, done correctly, is a useful and necessary tool if it has defined goals, and printing money is not, actually, deficit spending if the economy is growing and needs more money.

          In the real world, it does work like that.

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          Who is twigg?

          by twigg on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:00:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "You can't get something for nothing. Period." (0+ / 0-)

            As a matter of fact. When it comes to macroeconomics, you can absolutely get something for nothing.

            WRT inflation...MV*PQ

            If the money supply (M) increases due to a Govt deficit, when there is slack capacity (RE: unemployment), then the new money is accompanied by an increase in output (Q) and inflation would remain unchanged.

            And because money is practically free for the Dollar issuer, this is the definition of getting something for nothing.

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:52:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  "The laws on perpetual motion are quite clear." (0+ / 0-)

            Your entire economic paradigm is wrong. Natural laws like conservation of energy and thermodynamics or gravity are just that....natural. They are true despite what you believe.

            An economy is a human creation. Presumably, we have created all the laws that create a modern economy to serve a public purpose enacted through our representatives. US dollars did not exist before we passed the laws that created them. Money is nothing more than a unit of measurement. In America, we use inches for length and dollars to record claims on real resources. In Europe, they use meters and Euros. Either way, units of measurement, of which fiat money is one, are man-made. We can no sooner run out of inches than we can Dollars.

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 05:57:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  a (0+ / 0-)

            "I didn't say a single word about deficit spending, not one. I said that too much quantitative easing, as it is euphemistically called, leads to inflation and a devaluation of a currency, which it does."

            Again, you have absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. Your logic is all wrong and your understanding of our modern monetary system is inaccurate.

            QE is not creating much money. It adds almost no wealth to the economy. This is why its not done any good in stimulating the economy.

            If you have $1000 deposited at Chase and you decide that you would like a slightly better interest rate so you buy a 1 yr T-bond with that $1000. The accounting is:

            -$1000 chase bank deposit
            +$1000 Securities deposit at the Fed

            your net worth is the same.

            Now the Fed comes along and offers a small premium, say $1050 for your $1000 T-bond, so you sell it, here is the accounting:

            -$1000 securities deposit at the Fed
            +$1050 chase bank deposit

            Your net worth has increased by $50 or 5%.

            But you lose the future interest value of the security. Last year, the Fed remitted $90 Billion in interest payments from the TSY right back to the TSY. For a sense of scale, letting the Bush tax cuts expire on the top earners at the end of 2012 resulted in approximately $70 Billion in revenue to the TSY.

            WRT your inflation and currency devaluation comment.
            The evidence is all against you here:

            https://research.stlouisfed.org/...=

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:05:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  d (0+ / 0-)

            "You are free to deny the bleeding obvious until you are blue in the face, it will not change the facts."

            But then why does none of the evidence or logic agree with you?

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:06:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  d (0+ / 0-)

            "However, deficit spending, done correctly, is a useful and necessary tool if it has defined goals, and printing money is not, actually, deficit spending if the economy is growing and needs more money"

            The deficit is defined quite simply. The Govt adds more money to the economy through spending then it subtracts through taxation.

            All deficit spending is by definition "printing money" which is in and of itself a phrase that only someone who is unfamiliar with the actual operations would use. As a technical matter ZERO Govt spending is done with paper notes. Its all done via computers and the Fed's balance sheet. The Govt writes something like 100 million checks a month, all through Fedwire and computers. No cash is ever spent, as cash is unsecured.

            All larger economies have a larger money supply than when they were smaller economies. Therefore a growing economy and population must have a growing money supply in order to maintain the same financial standard of living. And "money" (exchangeable bank balances) comes from only two places per the laws that we have created.

            1) Private banks in the form of private bank liabilities that are essentially guaranteed by the Govt making them Govt liabilities

            2) The Govt's bank aka the Fed via its constitutional authorization from Congress.

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 06:13:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ahh... (0+ / 0-)

              You weren't finished.

              Okay.

              No sure what most of that had to do with anything I said, but whatever.

              I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
              but I fear we will remain Democrats.

              Who is twigg?

              by twigg on Thu Apr 24, 2014 at 07:51:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So I quote your words exactly, provide detailed (0+ / 0-)

                reasons and evidence for why you are wrong and you deny everything.

                You are no more intellectually honest than a right winger.

                Twigg: "Climate change is fake"

                Me: "No, its not, he's all the evidence why"

                Twigg: "No, you shut up."

                Feel free to keep on hurting the progressive cause by repeating obvious right wing falsehoods about the economy.

                "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

                by Auburn Parks on Fri Apr 25, 2014 at 05:47:09 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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