Skip to main content

View Diary: A Better Battery Changes The World, Crossing The Alt-E Threshold (175 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Good diary.. but the government is already (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Roadbed Guy

    heavily involved.

    Gov't is involved in the development phase, as it should be.

    However, the marketplace will either embrace or reject these breakthroughs depending on their viability.

    The notion that Big Oil is actively trying to suppress such developments is preposterous.  The oil companies and other deep pocket investors are pouring millions into research in these technologies.  They are not investing in production projects because it is simply not a good investment as yet.

    •  Heh: (10+ / 0-)
      However, the marketplace will either embrace or reject these breakthroughs depending on their viability.
      I don't think so, unless you have the proper, euphemistic definition of 'viability', which means "makes profits for established institutions without damaging current market dynamics.

      The real problem here is that they are totally viable for human beings, but that viability for self sufficiency in energy production makes it non-viable for the institutions who govern, control, and profit from the world's energy.

      Preposterous my ass. It will never be a good investment for Big Oil. There's not enough cuts to be made for the various middlemen and subsidiaries, and distributed power generation is not a commodity or a service. Alt-E is an anathema to Big Oil.

      Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

      by k9disc on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:00:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry to disagree.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RiveroftheWest
        The real problem here is that they are totally viable for human beings, but that viability for self sufficiency in energy production makes it non-viable for the institutions who govern, control, and profit from the world's energy.
        Viability means able to provide a product that meets a need at an affordable price.

        None of these battery technologies can do so as yet.

        A viable battery technology would allow a rooftop-size PV system to store enough energy for after dark, allowing the consumer to go off-grid or nearly so.

        Invent a battery that can do so cheaply and it will sell.  So far it hasn't been done.  And as a taxpayer, I do not want to subsidize someone else's use of an inferior or prohibitively expensive product.  It has to pay for itself.

        •  So atl-e tax credits (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RiveroftheWest

          to encourage adoption is a bad thing?  If you want to encourage adoption, innovation and economies of scale the tax credit is one of the best ways for the government to do that.  Eventually when adoption rates and costs come down you phase out tax credits.  If anything the government (captured as it is by the conventional energy industry among others) is not doing enough to encourage growth in this sector .

        •  This is the problem. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          happymisanthropy, BYw
          Viability means able to provide a product that meets a need at an affordable price.
          Cost is 1 metric. Profits are another.

          So where does the socially redeemable, beneficial to humanity, or not destructive to humanity part of the equation come into play with commercial viability.

          Oh, that's right... It doesn't.

          It will never be "viable" to replace the entire fossil fuel commoditized marketplace and political institutions with distributed self sufficient non-consumers.

          Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

          by k9disc on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:17:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't want to subsidize yours (5+ / 0-)

          After all, my kids are subsidizing your inefficiency fossil fuel use with their future ability to eat given the environmental damage.    Anyone interested in technologies that are cost effective would stop mooching off the future and dump fossi fuels

          •  My electricity is 50% nuclear (0+ / 0-)

            There is zero environmental damage for that portion.  So screw your kids, they ain't subsidizing jack for me.

            Tell me you are 100% in favor of expanding nuclear and we can talk.. otherwise..

            •  and the other half? (0+ / 0-)

              But yes, nuclear is probably a very good option.  Even Chernobyl and Fukushima were small potatoes compared to climate change.

              The point being that under any reasonable standard, fossil fuels are also heavily subsidized, largely by allowing producers to not pay their full costs.

              (and my electricity, including the car, is 100% renewables.  A good chunk hydro, but about half wind, solar and geothermal)

        •  That much storage is wastefully expensive. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JeffW
          A viable battery technology would allow a rooftop-size PV system to store enough energy for after dark, allowing the consumer to go off-grid or nearly so.
          Wind power is cheap, cheaper than solar.  It makes more economic sense for the consumer under that roof to feed the excess power into the grid for use by others, and take wind power generated elsewhere to cover nighttime demand.  All the consumer needs is enough battery reserve for a few hours, to cover power outages.  

          "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

          by Calamity Jean on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 02:12:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  better follow the link above. (10+ / 0-)

      The Kochs, and several red state legislatures are already trying to penalize Alt-E in favor of fossil fuels.  Sorry, but a hundred years of Oil baron interference with the market place tells me we've got a big fight on our hands.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site