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View Diary: A Better Battery Changes The World, Crossing The Alt-E Threshold (175 comments)

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  •  Five Years To Break Even If Gas Is $5 (0+ / 0-)

    I ran these numbers about 5 years ago, and here it is in a newer wikipedia reference.  If gas goes to $7 a gallon it's a no brainer.  Also in some places places people pay >$0.13/kwh.

    According to, the price premium paid for the Leaf, after discounting the US$7,500 federal tax credit, may take a long time for consumers to recover in fuel savings. In February 2012, Edmunds compared the mid-sized Leaf (priced at US$28,550) with the compact gasoline-powered Nissan Versa (priced at US$19,656) and found that the payback period for the Leaf is 9 years for gasoline at US$3 per gallon, 7 years at US$4 per gallon, and drops to 5 years with gasoline prices at US$5 per gallon. Considering gasoline prices by early 2012, the break even period is 7 years. These estimates assume an average of 15,000 mi (24,000 km) annual driving and vehicle prices correspond to's true market value estimates.

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 05:08:38 PM PDT

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    •  not with all the rebates and tax advantages. Lease (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest, pollwatcher

      is the way to go!
      and with solar panels, the only outlay is the hook up in our garage.  trade in helps with these costs.

      I am tired of laughing at the irony of their stupidity.

      by stagemom on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 05:44:42 PM PDT

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    •  Except, of course (0+ / 0-)

      ... that your car isn't suddenly worthless. Not only will the Leaf have higher resale value just by virtue of being a more expensive car to begin with, but as a general rule, efficient cars tend to retain their value better with time (because once you take away all the luxury, a car simply becomes a way to get from point A to point B as inexpensively as possible). And yes, this even applies to radically new "types" of cars - for example, the first-gen Prius and Honda Insight have had rather low depreciation rates.

      If you factor in depreciation and resale, electric cars are competitive as-is without subsidy. It becomes even more extreme if you assume that you never resell and the car is driven into the ground. The average car on the road in the US is almost 10 years old, meaning that the average lifespan is nearly double that. Even after factoring in the time value of money, that's a significant profit.

      And if your argument against it is "but you'll have to change out the battery pack", perhaps, but you'll never need to change out a transmission, gearbox, clutch, timing belt, muffler, catalytic converter, filters, oil, oil pumps, seals, spark plugs, camshaft, fuel pump, and on and on and on. Electric drivetrains have about 10% the moving parts of gasoline drivetrains, they're almost unfairly simple. And while battery packs always begin expensive, they always also drop precipitously with time. Remember people saying the exact same thing about Prius packs in the old days? "They're over $6k each, your car will be trash after a few years, you'd be an idiot to buy one!" Well, not only have the packs proven their durability (some are even still in use at 400k+ miles), but they now cost only $2.2k each. And that's new retail - you can get them under $1k rebuilt.

      The day I'll consider justice blind is the day that a rape defendant's claim of "She consented to the sex" is treated by the same legal standards as a robbery defendant's claim of "He consented to give me the money": as an affirmative defense.

      by Rei on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:05:04 AM PDT

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