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View Diary: Bill Maher blasts cheating conservatives and obnoxious liberals (205 comments)

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  •  Voting has worked SO well so far... (4+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    live1, Laconic Lib, ZhenRen, AlexDrew
    Hidden by:
    freakofsociety, TexasTom

    /snark.

    Al Gore WON the election in 2000...the Oligarchy didn't like it, so they reversed it.

    Tell me, again, how voting works? Joe Stalin was right.

    Bill Maher is a second-rate comedian and a third-rate mind (compare him to George Carlin, Lenny Bruce or even Louis CK if you want some real, biting wit) who is essentially a mouthpiece of the 1%.

    I'm sorry, but voting is a fools gambit. Yeah, yeah, I know what the official party line of this place is. I stand by what I say.

    A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

    by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 05:56:04 AM PDT

      •  Truth can be painful, can't it? (0+ / 0-)

        A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

        by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:08:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

          •  FWIW... (0+ / 0-)

            I voted for Al Gore and Barack Obama, twice.

            I shan't be voting again.

            It's not working...at least not for the 99%.

            A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

            by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:22:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And THAT is precisely (30+ / 0-)

              what those who try to fix the vote want from you.

              "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

              by Gentle Giant on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:28:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  So did I. (11+ / 0-)

              That's two out of three by my count.

              What we got from those last two results is "not working" as well as you or I might have hoped; I'll accept that.

              That it isn't working better than the alternatives: I don't accept that.

              •  One of the problems with the way all of this... (0+ / 0-)

                is approached by many here is that they view it as a sporting event.

                Wins and losses, keeping score.

                But yet they don't see that the playing field itself is tilted in the favor of the Oligarchy.

                A few scraps thrown to the rabble, here and there, including what FDR did, is NOT ACCEPTABLE to me.

                I'm sorry that it is acceptable to so many here. You have no idea how that saddens me.

                A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:33:21 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm not sure... (5+ / 0-)

                  ...that these things are really the case:

                  ...they view it as a sporting event...they don't see that the playing field itself is tilted in the favor of the Oligarchy...it is acceptable to so many here.
                  It may be the case that "Voting was NOT [the] primary means of change" for Martin Luther King, Malcom X, and Frederick Douglass, as you say below, but I doubt very much that they passed on the opportunity to do so if it was available to them.

                  I am sure, however, that any given election may be viewed by many as a choice merely between "bad" and "worse." But, hell: if that's my choice, I don't see any value in bowing out of the process so others can choose the "worse."

                  I therefore wonder two things:

                  - What, exactly, is it you expect from voting? That even if your candidates of choice are elected, they'll magically know the minds of millions of citizens and do just as each of them wishes? That's obviously not possible, even if those citizens did explicitly express their wishes between elections (which they generally don't).

                  - Is your purpose here to be talked back into participating, or to discourage others from doing so? If the latter, I can't imagine what benefit there is in it.

                  •  I believe that in a true Democracy where... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Laconic Lib

                    money doesn't rule the day and that we aren't ruled by an Oligarchy, voting can be effective.

                    My purpose here is two-fold. To enjoy discussions and offer my opinion.

                    To learn and inform.

                    While I've not any of my deep opinions changed, and I have no idea if I've changed anyone, either, I have learned a great deal.

                    I also enjoy the community. It is a big community here. My most enjoyable part of the dKos experience, believe it or not, has nothing at all to do with politics (I'm a member of the dKos Sangha.)

                    Having said that, I believe that our planet is in extreme and dire straits. Everything from climate change, resource depletion (especially water), over population, and extreme wealth inequality.) I care about these things and I am trying to find a way to change things for the better.

                    At this point in time, I do not believe that voting makes any statistical difference.

                    I hope that answers your questions, if not, please let me know if I can clarify.

                    A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                    by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:58:13 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not really. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      UnionMade

                      It appears to take a step back from them, and to comment instead on some more general issues.

                      By "your purpose here," I had in mind your original post this morning denouncing voting as "a fools gambit." I'm not sure what sort of responses you expected, but - nothing personal - it's encouraging to me that they were generally unsympathetic to the idea.

                      I do appreciate those more general comments, and hope you find that "way to change things for the better." I know that there are any number of us - if too few - who do engage in other ways of effecting change, yet do so in addition to, rather than in lieu of, voting. That would seem to me to be the more productive course, no matter how little difference that one specific civic exercise appears to make at any given time.

                •  It's not about who you want; it's about (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  marina, UnionMade

                  ...what you'll get. There is value in choosing even when you know you won't get even close to your desired outcome, or all your needs being met.
                  I like voting to let the guy who is going to win in my congressional district know that he isn't THAT popular. I like voting to let the person who will win the presidency that they ARE that popular. Then after the fan mail votes (and anti fan mail) I like to get local and try to make a difference. I wanted Monsanto to have to label in my state. It didn't win but was worth a try. I wanted Prop 8 to die. I want better judges who can make a big difference (SCOTUS and on down).
                  I think of this like a public opinion poll with more teeth. Or it would have more teeth if everyone could get off their skeptical cynical lazy asses and make their opinion known.  (If you faced I surmountable obstacles getting to vote I'm not talking about you.)
                  And no, it doesn't stop there. Don't assume everyone ONLY votes. There are many other ways to make change and some may be more effective even than voting. But voting is still an effective way to make your opinions known. And sometimes you get lucky.

                  Let every man make known what kind of government would command his respect, and that would be one step toward obtaining it. --Henry David Thoreau

                  by pam on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:51:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Thank you for your thoughts, Pam (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    pam

                    I don't assume that everyone only votes.

                    Please, also, don't assume that because I will no longer be voting that I am not and will not be involved in other forms of social change.

                    BTW, Henry David Thoreau is one of my heroes.

                    A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                    by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:09:31 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Thoreau (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      joegoldstein

                      was rather anti-statist, and is considered an anarchist in basic philosophy. He would be very likely in complete agreement with you on the relative futility of voting.

                      "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue." Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

                      by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:25:24 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  So the thousands of lives that (6+ / 0-)

              will be saved by some of the provisions of Obamacare are just for decoration?  A major start to healthcare  policy that has been denied for centuries and you can't see anything?  A solid step forward in a policy area that history shows improves incrementally as it adapts over years and decades?

              There is a path through your cynicism, but you have to want to leave that cold comfort of cynical anger.

              I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

              by Satya1 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:15:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What I want is Universal Healthcare (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Laconic Lib

                as a basic human right. I bow down to no scraps from the 1%, even when the scraps are delivered by those with a "D" by their names instead of an "R".

                The very fact that all we are offered is a "D" or an "R" should inform you of the deceit which is being perpetrated upon us.

                A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:29:00 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Frankly yes (0+ / 0-)
                So the thousands of lives that will be saved by some of the provisions of Obamacare are just for decoration?
                As far as the insurance companies are concerned it is. Profits are up. And therefore bribery will be up in the foreseeable future.
                And by the way, it is only because we are willing to accept second best that we get second best. If we had been willing to accept the consequences of punishing the Democrats for refusal to perform (like the republican right) yes, we would have been in the woods for a time, but we would have come out (like the Republicans) and would be in power today. (unlike now)
                Of course that's all spilled milk today. Today we cannot afford to  sacrifice a few elections to clear out second rate Democrats; the danger is too high. We should all stop this suicidal argument and formulate a strategy that leads to the survival of the American democracy and the human race.
                That said, corporate Democrats are as deadly as Republicans. They are not the answer.
            •  The problem is your definition of "working" (4+ / 0-)

              Because people voted for Obama we got Obamacare and now there are thousands of people who will not die from preventable causes.  No, it's not as good as single payer and there are still people who are going to die from preventable causes, but there is a difference between "not working" and "Not working as well as you would like."

        •  so what is your suggestion if it isnt voting? (8+ / 0-)

          it is all we have. seriously. it will never be easy as long as humans and greed are involved. but voting is always way better than violent means to rule

          •  I think we can be greatly informed by... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nocynicism

            the life and works of Martin Luther King, Malcom X, and Frederick Douglass, for starters.

            A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

            by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:21:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  They didn't believe in voting? (12+ / 0-)

              Frederick Douglass didn't see Lincoln's election as being meaningful?  

              You're just saying one really stupid thing after another here.  

              When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

              by Sun dog on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:01:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  They would fight on all fronts (9+ / 0-)

              including the voting booth.

              Cynicism in the end, is a cop out.  It's "just another specimen of naiveté".

              I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

              by Satya1 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:20:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  They were not informed by studies... (0+ / 0-)

                using multivariate statistical analysis to the absolute futility of voting and its resultant influence on policy.

                In that case, they can be excused. What's your excuse?

                A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:35:34 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Pardon me your highness (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sun dog, Sir Roderick, Calamity Jean
                  What's your excuse?
                  Now I understand the naive comments.  You've been locked up in the palace too long and don't get out much to join us here in reality.

                  I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

                  by Satya1 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:18:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You asked me why... (0+ / 0-)

                    I thought the three fine and brave gentleman I spoke of believed in voting.

                    I answered you. I, too, used to vote. In fact, I've voted in every single election which I was eligible for since I first voted for Jimmy Carter and continued to do so through the last Presidential election. Depending on your age, I'm guessing that I have actually voted MORE in my life than you have (I'm 53, if you're older than me, then I apologize for this assumption.)  In each of those elections, I voted Democrat because I believed that was the best choice and because I believed it made a difference.

                    I'd like to think that Dr. King, Malcom X and Frederick Douglass, if they were alive today and were aware of the studies and works showing the ineffectiveness of voting would come to the same conclusions I have.

                    You continue to do something which I believe is ineffective. I believe it is you who is naive.

                    I have to laugh a most hearty laugh when you accuse me of being "locked in a palace." I suspect that you are as accurate about your assessment of me as you are about your belief in the effectiveness of voting. In other words: not at all.

                    A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                    by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:50:42 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  So, to sum up (3+ / 0-)

                      We should learn from the example of these figures in history.  But not from what they did but from what they would have done had they known what YOU know.  

                      When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

                      by Sun dog on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:21:40 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  ... (3+ / 0-)

                      *  I did not ask if those three "believed in voting".  I asserted that they knew the wisdom of fighting for social justice on multiple fronts (in not so many words).  I know how they felt about voting.

                      *  I merely traded insults about "your highness" because you started putting on an insulting, pompous attitude:

                      What's your excuse?
                      I don't converse with people who want to take it there.  Since you seem to be backing off a bit,  I'm responding.

                      *  You say you've got  "statistics" numerous times but haven't produced any.  If you wanted an honest conversation, why don't you produce those and take the time also to highlight the most salient and relevant supports to your contention?

                      Better yet, write a diary because this comment thread is starting to hijack the diary if it keeps going on.

                      *  Here is what cynicism gave us:

                      Pres. Bush, Iraq invasion, the Roberts Court, Citizens United, McCutcheon, rolling back voter rights protection, rolling back affirmative action, the Great Recession.

                      With just a few thousand more people willing to care enough to vote in 1-2 states, none of that would have happened.  Half of the voting age population did not vote in 2000.

                      I'm not going to slice and dice the Obama led years, but one thing we did get from the Dems:  ACA.  If you think that isn't a BFD, then we just agree to disagree on that.

                      *  And by the way,  if your nonvoting is your honest, long held belief then you are being inconsistent with the purpose of this site.  You can read about site violations and you may want to pay attention to the one beginning with:

                      Daily Kos is dedicated to building a stronger, more progressive Democratic Party from the outside.

                      I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

                      by Satya1 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:07:09 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I think we both went "tit for tat" on the... (0+ / 0-)

                        /snark...so we can let that slide.

                        However, I'm not backing off at all. So let me disabuse you of that notion.

                        Here is a reference for the study of which I am speaking.

                        Al Gore WON the 2000 election. Yet we ended up with George W. Bush and the resultant fiasco. That's because we are an Oligarchy, not a true Democracy.

                        As for my "long standing belief", I told you that I voted (for President Obama, in case I was not clear) in the last election. So it can hardly be called a long-standing belief. It's a belief which has come to fruition over quite a long time, to be sure, but it wasn't really cemented in my mind until the last couple of years, to be quite frank with you.

                        As for my being "inconsistent with the purpose of this site" or being, possibly, in some sort of rules violation...whatever. If this place is such an echo-chamber that alternative points of view can't be discussed by serious-minded people, well, I'll let others come to what conclusions that they may.

                        MY purpose is to work toward social justice and a better world,  for ALL sentient beings (to quote Jean-Paul Sartre via Malcom X) "By any means necessary." If you don't get that, at this point in the development of this world, you're simply not paying attention. And that is really, really just sad.

                        However, you are correct, I don't want to be threadjacking this diary, so this will be my last response. I might just take up your suggestion of writing my own Diary, though, thank you for your excellent idea!

                        Feel free to have the last word. I won't respond anymore to any of this in this thread. I've said all I need to say and I think it is quite clear to anyone who reads my words what I believe.

                        Good day.

                        A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                        by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:42:09 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I read part of that study (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          joegoldstein

                          It covers a favorite topic by one of the authors, Page.  I have heard him speak at Northwestern years ago.  There is a nice writeup on the study at Vox.

                          (BTW, I never said Bush won the election.  More votes however could have secured it better.)

                          good luck.

                          I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

                          by Satya1 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:14:04 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

            •  You mean three men who, at one point (7+ / 0-)

              could not vote at all? I don't believe they'd be so nonchalant about dismissing a right that so many would deny them.

              Like Malcolm said, "By any means necessary."

              Come on... vote. It's good for you.

              We don't see things as they are; we see things as we are.

              by EighteenCharacters on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:32:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  See my above response to Satya1. (EOM) (0+ / 0-)

                A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

                by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:36:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I understand your frustration (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Calamity Jean

                  but if you don't put your small voice in with others like yours, we won't have even a whisper of a chance. And the powerful will make their decisions without your even having tried to influence them. Separately, we may feel powerless, but together we are a force.

                  People have died for the right to vote. It seems ungrateful to not respect that.

                  These are chaotic times for a number of reasons, and sure, it's hard to keep one's balance among all the flotsam and jetsam of overlapping and conflicting issues and policies.

                  Still, we must try. Not trying is not an option.

          •  I always want to ask Mike Malloy that question (7+ / 0-)

            He rants about how useless voting is . . . but what is the alternative? Sitting at my keyboard and bitching? Daily Kos pie fights?

            Well, that is effective. Not.

            And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

            by Pale Jenova on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:33:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks (6+ / 0-)

          for the truth that disaffected people provide nothing towards a better outcome.  Maybe your "truth" can convince more people to not vote so in spite of improving demographics we can can continue the spiral downward.

          •  I appreciate that you think I, personally, ... (0+ / 0-)

            have that much power. I'm just giving my opinions on things on a discussion forum. Just like you. Nothing more and nothing less.

            I think it's pretty self-evident to anyone who actually lives in reality, reads what economists and other experts in the field say as well as a recent study using multivariate statistical analysis shows, that my opinion tracks pretty well with reality.

            But by all means, continue voting, patting yourself on the back that you have done all you can do, and, yes, we will continue the downward spiral.

            A society consisting of the sum of its vanity and greed is not a society at all but a state of war. - Lewis Lapham

            by joegoldstein on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:17:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You assume voters think voting is all we should do (4+ / 0-)

              --that's kinda insulting.

              But in NC in this primary, votes--and nothing but the sheer number of votes--will decide whether the NC Supreme Court becomes even more solidly conservative for years to come. This at a time when NCSC will decide questions on marriage rights, voting rights, teacher contracts, fracking, etc. etc. etc.

              The incumbent faces two conservative challengers, and could get knocked off the November ballot if enough like-minded people refrain from voting.

              That's real. Nothing else one person can do this week in NC will matter more, or have a more real effect, than adding a vote to Robin Hudson's tally.

    •  If he's the third rate mind (6+ / 0-)

      Then that makes yours sixth?

      http://jasonluthor.jelabeaux.com/

      by DAISHI on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:23:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  wow (21+ / 0-)

      Consider if more people had voted in 2000 then the Oligarchy would not have been able to "steal" the election.  So to recap your post voting doesn't matter enough and requires some effort but complaining about it does what?  If you think you are frustrated now just wait, it will get worse. If too many people continue to expend the bulk of their effort complaining rather than trying to push the conversation to the left AND vote in all elections (don't forget the primaries) thing will improve how? Is waiting for things to get so bad that a popular revolution is the only option your plan?  I'm sorry to say that if people can't motivate themselves to vote consistently at the chance to improve their lot than what makes you think they will risk their freedom and lives for it?

      •  well said rostar (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        UnionMade, Calamity Jean

        I'm a little bored about going over the obvious for these folks who've been led into deep, paralyzing cynicism.  I can understand how it happens (I've had my own phase of cynicism), but I just have to wonder if they are trolls that just want to hyjack some diaries for fun.

        The DK rules, I thought, made it clear that this blog is for electing Democrats.  Logically if someone is refusing to vote or aid any Democrat campaign, then they don't really belong at DK anyway.

        Voting is only one out of many tools for pushing our society leftward.

        I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

        by Satya1 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:04:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No close elections (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Satya1, Calamity Jean

        The bigger the vote margin, the harder it is for the swine to steal an election.  Given the small electoral margin and the large number of votes in Florida, the outcome is probably within the margin of error for the vote counting process; any little irregularity or mistake can swing the election one way or the other.  Elections that close discredit the election process since it's always easy for the losing side to say, rightly or wrongly, that they were robbed.  

        Anyone interested in having a democracy ought to be working to make the election process as bulletproof as possible so that "stolen" elections become a rarity.

        Individual voters can also do their part by never taking an election for granted.  Running up the score is a good thing: elections aren't a youth sporting events.


        My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.—Carl Schurz
        "Shared sacrifice!" said the spider to the fly.—Me

        by KingBolete on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:44:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I kind of want to HR this badly. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      UnionMade, Satya1, roberb7, Calamity Jean

      Telling people not to vote is the worst thing you can do. And it's totally against the core mission of this site.

      I love president Obama!!!

      by freakofsociety on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:00:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  HRed for discouraging people from (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      roberb7, Calamity Jean

      Voting. I do truly believe this comment needs to be hidden as no one should be doing this. Especially on this site.

      I love president Obama!!!

      by freakofsociety on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:32:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Voting is obviously not working (0+ / 0-)

      The problem, of course, isn't the concept of voting, itself, but rather the top-down authority we give those for whom we vote: we elect them to a cadre of bosses who can't be easily removed except in the worst circumstances (and even then it is almost impossible). We vote into office people who are coerced to serve the elite peers of their ranks rather than their constituents. Any system with a top-down power structure will always be thus. It leads to the theater that we see played out year after year, in which the elected elites serve not us, but their peers whom they rely on for any kind of cooperation to get any bills passed, while they put on a show for the public to make us think they're trying to get something done.

      Its a complete sham, and its astounding more people don't see through the facade. So it isn't voting that is the problem. If we could vote in a horizontal, bottom up system, with recallable delegates who are mandated from below, voting would work.

      What Bakunin wrote 140 years ago could well have been written today. Here's a sample from The Basic Bakunin, Writings 1869-1871:

             

      From the beginning of history until today, there has never been a politics of the people, and by "the people" we mean the common people, the working rabble whose labor is the world's pabulum. There has only been the politics of the privileged classes, and these classes have used the physical force of the people to dethrone each other and to take one another's place. The people, in turn, have supported or opposed them only in the vague hope that at least one of these political revolutions—none of which could have been made without their help but none of which has been made for their sake—might alleviate somewhat their poverty and their age-old slavery. They have always been deceived. Even the Great French Revolution betrayed them. It eliminated the aristocratic nobility and replaced it with the bourgeoisie. The people are no longer called slaves or serfs; the law proclaims them free-born. But their slavery and their poverty remain unchanged.

                  And these will remain unchanged so long as the masses of the people continue to be used as the tool of bourgeois politics, whether this is called conservative, liberal, progressive, or radical politics, even if it gives itself the most revolutionary airs in the world. Because all bourgeois politics, regardless of its color and its label, has at bottom but a single aim: to preserve bourgeois rule; and bourgeois rule is proletarian slavery.

      "The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue." Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

      by ZhenRen on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:23:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, mebbe so, but (0+ / 0-)

        I keep voting Dem if for no other reason than cancelling out by brother's knee-jerk Repub vote.
        I'm just ornery that way.

        This comment is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

        by blue muon on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:56:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'd have to disagree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        roberb7

        With you. It seemed to work in 2012 and 2008. In 2012 everyone thought Romney was a sure bet. And he would have been had certain people not stood in line for hours and hours.

        I love president Obama!!!

        by freakofsociety on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:25:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Here, have a HR... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      freakofsociety

      ...and please go somewhere else to discourage people from voting.

      Preferably, Red State.

      Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

      by TexasTom on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:05:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What would Bill Maher say about your HR? (0+ / 0-)

        New Republic: So are the left-wing blogs as bad as the Tea Party ones in this case? -------------------------Chuck Schumer: Left-wing blogs are the mirror image. They just have less credibility and less clout.

        by AlexDrew on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:15:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Just keep repeating that (0+ / 0-)

      Al Gore/Dems didn't exactly fight the decision. When Democrats have alienated so much of their traditional base by embracing NAFTA (job loss) and wiping out poverty relief, how do you make up for the lost votes? Just keep claiming election fraud? I'm not discounting what does appear to be fraud regarding the Gore/Bush election, but pointing out that there are other very important factors. With the latest budget, Dems voted to cut food stamps to the elderly, disabled and working poor.  Again. They aren't even talking about it.

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