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View Diary: Breaking News... Massive shooting : FedX, Shooter and Ga. Surprised with those laws? (264 comments)

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  •  That's not what you said (0+ / 0-)
    that'll work WAY better than trained, armed police officers...
    Getting rid of 30 round clips doesn't result in untrained, disarmed police.  It doesn't mean going down to bobby sticks.  It doesn't mean untrained laymen with NO EXPERIECE are handling crisis situations.

    And you still haven't justified 30 round clips except for "criminals have them", so self-defense.  And still haven't explained why that logic doesn't apply to civilians.

    But you're wrong, in IL there is mandatory training for anyone getting a concealed carry permit.  

    •  Oh, I see... "30 clips because police have them?" (0+ / 0-)

      THAT'S your "rationale"?

      Brilliant...

      Baby, where I come from...

      by ThatSinger on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:03:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Same as your rationale (0+ / 0-)

        You say that the Police can have all the weapons that criminals have, and I say civilians can have all the weapons that police get.

        If you would just stop the arms race with criminals, and drop the nonsense that cops get to go full auto whenever the criminals do, then you could work to dial back both the police and civilian level of arms, which is where almost all the guns are in this country.

        To you, it's completely logical for the LAPD to carry AR-15s and 30 round clips each and every day, because one day in 1997 a couple criminals got a hold of machine guns.  To me, it's George W. Bush style War on Terror, pant pissing "keep us safe" nonsense.

        Do you have anything besides one day 17 years ago to justify police having 30 round clips?  Just admit the police don't need them, and I'll agree with a complete and total ban.  It's that simple, and you won't do it.

        •  I know... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          i saw an old tree today
          You say that the Police can have all the weapons that criminals have, and I say civilians can have all the weapons that police get.
          That's laughably preposterous because intentionally or not, you're placing criminals on equal footing with law enforcement... that you'd also arm private citizens into the midst of it is not very well thought out... it's the same "rationale" as the NRA's "more guns" solution to everything...

          Look, I get that you're trying to float this libertarian pschobabble wherein the police are potentially intruders on our "libertuhs" and therefore must be on equal footing with the rest of us but there's literally no real world practicality to your hallucination...

          So tell me, how exactly would that work? All private citizens would turn over their military styled semi-automatic weapons and clips over 5 rounds before or after the police do? Would everybody just meet up and toss them on a big pile? THEN congress would vote on the legislation? If that's not a fever dream, I don't know what is...

          Speaking of "big piles", how about a couple of weeks ago when armed domestic terrorists faced off with federal officers in Nevada and the feds were forced to stand down to avoid a bloodbath? Is that "recent" enough for you? THIS is what you envision as desirable situation?

          Sorry, I'm done with this conversation...

          Baby, where I come from...

          by ThatSinger on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:40:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You just wrote off any possibility of banning guns (0+ / 0-)

            First, let's be perfectly clear.  I'm the one saying police don't need more guns, and you disagree with me.  So it's you agreeing with the NRA that "more guns" are the solution for the police to deal with criminals.

            Criminals are NEVER on equal footing with law enforcement.  Those two jokers in North Hollywood are dead because despite all their arms, it was two lone nuts against an army of police with radio, backup, helicopters.  There was no escape, no shooting their way out of that.
            You're so stuck on having the cops out Rambo the criminals, but that's not the best way to win those fights.

            You're trying to sell me on an over militarized police state where the cops have the firepower to blow away any threat they face, regardless of how many unarmed innocents they also blow away.

            But then you go on to discount any possibility of ever banning any gun, any clip in this country, by saying people will never give up their guns.  Well if that's true, then what are you arguing for?  A gun ban enforced solely by threat of massive police violence?

            No, instead, Congress first passes the ban.  Police and law abiding citizens all disarm.  After the grace period, anyone with a 30 round clip is a criminal and subject to massive jail time.  Real criminals aren't going to give up their guns for any ban, so they don't count.  Your goal is to first get to less guns overall, not out Rambo the criminals.

            Finally, I'll address this:

            Speaking of "big piles", how about a couple of weeks ago when armed domestic terrorists faced off with federal officers in Nevada and the feds were forced to stand down to avoid a bloodbath?
            The feds have all the arms they could want, right?  They have the numbers and backup to take out the terrorists, so why didn't they?  Was it lack of arms that held the feds back?  Are you honestly saying that if the feds had only had 5 round clips, that the situation would have been fundamentally different?

            We've discussed military, and armed domestic terrorists are a military situation.  If after 30 round clips are banned there's a crazy militia refusing to disarm and threatening police with a bloodbath, call in the National Guard.  That's what they're there for, to defend a free state from crazy threats.

            But it's not libertarian psychobabble that police and citizens are equal.  It's basic Constitutional rights.  The police have never, NEVER, had special 2nd Amendment rights over civilians.  NEVER.

          •  I was hoping for fewer weapons for everyone (1+ / 0-)
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            ThatSinger

            ~anyway~ thanks

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