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View Diary: Liberal friend plus Obamacare saves conservative crank's life. He's not so cranky anymore (156 comments)

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  •  if (3+ / 0-)

    If Lincoln followed her advice, Nixon's southern strategy would never had come about, and we would possibly be more like Scandinavia.  It's sort of like all wars--do we kill for a cause?  Pacificism usually seems the better course in retrospect.

    Actions speak louder than petitions.

    by melvynny on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 11:00:42 AM PDT

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    •  This points to one of the biggest tragedies (22+ / 0-)

      of the Civil War, and one of history's greatest "what if"s...

      What if Lincoln had actually lived to implement his vision of a postwar reconciliation?  His one speech on the issue (his last public address, delivered from a White House window) was considered a flop, partly because it struck a visionary rather than a gloating tone.  Lincoln's vision of Reconstruction was a far more humane one, but probably not at all popular.  It would have required all of Lincoln's political and oratory gifts to pull off, and would have represented an achievement even greater than winning the war and holding the Union together.  Could he have done so?  

      When he was killed only days after the war ended, his vision died with him. Reconstruction was totally designed and implemented by men with little or none of Lincoln's vision, compassion, or moral compass.  

      Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

      by Big River Bandido on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 11:08:20 AM PDT

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      •  just had to log in ( at work ), Bandido (4+ / 0-)

        to  rec your defense of A.Lincoln - it is true, he had compassionate and practical plans for the re-integration of the confederate states.

        Only the cool die young ~ R.I.P. my Stevie an Turcotte

        by Dvalkure on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 11:34:06 AM PDT

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        •  my take (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          In college, I was taught, by a very well known scholar, that Reconstruction was quite successful, but later history books were written by Southerners who used a slur--carpetbaggers--to define some excellent people.  Bigotry has often ruled our history books.

          Actions speak louder than petitions.

          by melvynny on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52:31 AM PDT

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      •  Ironically, he chose a Southern Gov for his VP (0+ / 0-)

        And that is what killed any decent Reconstruction efforts. The Radical Republicans and he could not compromise.

        Despite this choice and other flaws, Lincoln was the Greatest President of them all. No doubt about it. FDR comes in second. Obama isn't even in the Top Ten on MY list.

        "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

        by DaddyO on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 02:08:55 PM PDT

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      •  The problem was... (5+ / 0-)

        Andrew Johnson gave the South hope by:

        1) allowing black codes which pretty much re-established  something very much close to slavery again;

        2) moreover the political power of the former Confederates would increase in Congress as the newly-freed slaves, still barred by the black codes from voting, would now be counted as 'whole people' for represenation purposes;

        3) To top it all off, some Southern states repealed their articles of secession rather than declare them null and void, and moreover refused to repudiate the Confederate debt (saying in effect that the Confederacy was legally valid and that 'we can do this again if we want').

        Most of the older texts on Reconstruction don't tell you the full story on what happened before military Reconstruction was put into effect. But seeing the just-defeated Southern states do all that, can you not imagine that the North would not be outraged? It would seem that the North had fought and won the Civil War all for nothing. The South would still be under largely the same leadership, still insisting that secession was legal and proper, still insisting that the Confederacy was a legitimate nation, and still holding the new freedmen as de facto slaves--but with more representation in Congress to boot!!

        The problem with Reconstruction was not that it was too gentle. The defeated South had to be put down hard which didn't happen  The problem with Reconstruction is that it didn't go far enough in giving the freed slaves economic independence. The problem with Reconstruction also was that most Northern whites shared with Southern whites similar views on white superiority and the need for white political and economic supremacy in the nation as a whole, and weren't thus willing to take the steps necessary to empower the slaves to hold the freedom they had won.

        Ultimately this was a failure of democracy, as one is asking the citizens of a country who largely all agreed in white racial superiority to implement a system based on racial equality.

      •  They didn't like his Second Inaugural Address.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:


        How could they?

        Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes.
        Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

        "They bash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago volume 3)

        by sagesource on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 08:18:57 PM PDT

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