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View Diary: After Oklahoma chemically tortures death row inmate into heart attack, governor orders investigation (220 comments)

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  •  I have found it very difficult to even (34+ / 0-)

    take a peek at news stories of this horror. I an not as susceptible to trigger reactions to information about violence as some people are, though I certainly their reactions. However, there is something about the cold blooded organization of capital murder that just sends my buttons into overload.

    I am sure that this incident will do little to change the minds of the people who think that capital murder is a jolly thing to do. Perhaps it will push those of us who do object to it to push harder.

    •  As a journalist, I've seen people die in... (64+ / 0-)

      ...war (Nicaragua), seen a mass grave excavated (Guatemala), been on the seen to see the dead after a gang shootout (Los Angeles) and covered one execution. Nothing was as bad as that last item and I would never do it again.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 01:18:50 PM PDT

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    •  Capital Murder is almost as barberic (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dougymi, psyched, Janet 707, Lilredhead

      as what that fucker Lockett did to that poor girl.....more appropriate would be that bastard making big rocks into little rocks the rest of his worthless life....he deserved to life his entire life with the guilt of having killed that girl.

      The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

      by ctexrep on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 01:22:44 PM PDT

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    •  Well people (4+ / 0-)

      are changing their minds. There's been serious leftward movement on the death penalty and I suspect such open barbarism (usually it's masked) may help. I can imagine human sacrifice being abolish in the next two decades.

      •  Agreed (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CenPhx

        I think a lot of people are OK with it because they've been convinced that it's just like taking old sick Rover to the vet and holding him in your arms while the vet gently shoots him up with something that ends his pain (which we then describe with a euphemism of "putting to sleep," which it isn't).

        I hope this was videotaped, and hope the governor and the state court judges who turned down the challenge to the untested drugs have to watch it -- without a bucket handy.

        •  It does not appear that this problem was related (0+ / 0-)

          to the drugs.

          Apparently there was some kind of problem with the needle insertion into Lockett's veins.

          •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

            Do you know what drugs were used? Do you know where the drugs came from? What country and what pharmacy? Do you know the amounts used of each and in what dosages over time?

            I ask because NO ONE knows these things: that is the exact reason for the lawsuits and appeals requesting stays of execution. So I am not sure how you can claim to KNOW that the "problem", also know as Lockett's prolonged seizing gasping death to those of us not seeking to minimize the "problem", was not a direct result of the drugs used.

            I suppose since the people performing the execution immediately announced it was just a "problem" with Lockett's veins, with no objective investigation or consideration of whether the collapsed veins would also result from this drug cocktail and no consideration of how much prolonged pain would be caused, the matter should be considered settled and we should all just move along.

            You will have to forgive me if I don't consider Oklahoma officials pronouncement credible or convincing in the slightest.

            Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. -Thoreau

            by CenPhx on Thu May 01, 2014 at 11:41:43 AM PDT

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            •  You obviously have reading comprehension problems (0+ / 0-)
              So I am not sure how you can claim to KNOW that the "problem", also know as Lockett's prolonged seizing gasping death to those of us not seeking to minimize the "problem", was not a direct result of the drugs used.
              Of course, I did not "claim to KNOW that the "problem", also know as Lockett's prolonged seizing gasping death to those of us not seeking to minimize the "problem", was not a direct result of the drugs used".

              Suggest you reread what I wrote and then find a dictionary and look up the word "appeared".

              I suppose since the people performing the execution immediately announced it was just a "problem" with Lockett's veins, with no objective investigation or consideration of whether the collapsed veins would also result from this drug cocktail and no consideration of how much prolonged pain would be caused, the matter should be considered settled and we should all just move along.
              You are welcome to consider that.  I think there should still be an investigation.  However, unlike you, I do not assume as a default that the state of Oklahoma is lying to us.  Unless someone provides a reasonable argument that they are I am going to assume that we are getting more or less true facts.
              You will have to forgive me if I don't consider Oklahoma officials pronouncement credible or convincing in the slightest.
              And I think that's your problem - you know what you want the answer to be, so any statement by the state that disagrees has to be a lie.

              In actual fact, the description of the events seems to fit quite well with the needle not being properly in a vein or the vein having ruptured or collapsed so the drugs did not enter Lockett's blood stream quickly as intended but instead slowly entered into his metabolism and killed him much more slowly than intended.

    •  Not me, or "a note of caution" (3+ / 0-)

      I'm against death penalty for common criminals on practical, utilitarian and moral grounds. That extends to people like that Clayton Lockett. And I find the incompetence of the OK executioners utterly grotesque and revolting, to even further compound the stupidity, wastefulness and immorality of judicial death penalty.

      Yet, assuming he was truly guilty, as best as I try, I can't bring myself to feel even the slightest bit sorry for that guy. Given what brought him on death row, I just don't care how painful and tortuous his death was. He might have been broken upon the wheel, I wouldn't care a bit. I don't like what death penalty says about us and even less what this particular screw-up implies. But for the guy, I just don't care. I just can't.

      Some people may find this opinion quite abhorrent. Fine. I'm not particularly proud of it myself. And frankly, my opinion is just that, an opinion. This and $3.25 will buy me a small frappucino at the nearest Starbucks.

      The point is that I'm not exactly a wingnut, as in really not, I'm stone cold against death penalty, and yet I still feel this way. My guess is that a lot of people will feel exactly the same way about that botched execution.

      I don't know what it implies for anti-death penalty activists when using this botched execution in the debate. But if I'm any indication, the emotional angle on " we tortured a man to death " will probably fall flat for a lot of people, many of them staunch Democrats and liberals. So, use with caution.

      I deal in facts. My friends are few but fast.

      by Farugia on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 03:22:09 PM PDT

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      •  To me it's not just about sympathy for him (8+ / 0-)

        It's about what kind of person I want to be, and what kind of society I want to live in. And torture, even of people who committed torture or gruesome murder, doesn't fit with that.  He may not deserve better (that one's way above my pay grade), but we deserve better and need to expect better of ourselves.

        •  For me neither. (0+ / 0-)

          We agree on principles*, but not on perception of this specific case.

          I'm simply pointing out that, most likely, Lockett's case will not elicit much sympathy for abolition within the general public.

          And I'm saying that, because even as someone who's pretty darn liberal, opposed to death penalty and fairly aware of the issues, I still can't get myself to actually care about what happened to this guy, given his crime.

          What I see is infuriating incompetence in the service of an immoral institution, the Keystone Cops with a death warrant, not a watershed event, and Lockett himself, an unlucky piece of crap, not a martyr of any kind. If I believed in a provident and vengeful god, I'd call the whole botching immanent justice.

          I can't claim to speak for anyone else, even less Americans in general. But I don't think the case going to make much difference for abolition.

          * With probably a caveat, in the benefit of full disclosure. I imagine you are opposed to death penalty in any and all circumstances as a matter of nonnegotiable principles, just as I am are opposed to torture under any and all circumstances. Yet, I'm actually in favor of death penalty for certain types of organized criminality, particularly corruption and corporate and white-collar criminality, but it doesn't apply to Lockett's case, my opinions on that subject are way outside of the pro or con mainstreams, and it's irrelevant to this debate in any case.

          I deal in facts. My friends are few but fast.

          by Farugia on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 08:24:07 PM PDT

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