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View Diary: Ukraine Government Says Security Forces Helpless in East as Russia Escalates Chaos (65 comments)

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  •  while those two activist poles are accurately (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kalmoth, poco, Spit

    described, the big missing piece here when we talk about ukraine is the rest of the country that doesn't fall into either of those camps. it is the agency of those people that the great power stuff seems to overlook.

    •  The problem is: (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mookins, wu ming, barkworsethanbite

      Most people don't want this conflict, even the miners who were interviewed by Al-Jazeera who want to reunite with Russia. But the whole process is being hijacked by extreme elements on both sides who don't want peace.

      "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

      by Eternal Hope on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 02:51:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  that is how i read the unwillingness to fire (3+ / 0-)

        on the part of the ukrainian military, both in crimea and eastern ukraine. a combination of a desire to avoid escalation into a conflict that would lead to them getting killed, as well as a general sense of national solidarity and unwillingness to kill fellow ukrainians.

        the trick is that people avoiding violent conflict can be buffaloed and eventually overcome by a force willing to provoke violence. we see some pushback against right sector in kiev, but rather less so in eastern ukraine. for all of their sakes, i really hope this can be resolved without broader violence, whether war or persistent lower-level thuggery. once that genie is let out of the bottle, the resentments and vengeance it engenders can become very hard to rein in again.

    •  That's why (1+ / 0-)
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      Russia is hurrying to exploit the situation as much as possible before next month's elections.

      What do the Defend-NSAers-at-any-cost hope for society to gain from Snowden turning himself in and standing trial? I suspect it'll be a cold day in hell before any of them finally give a reasonable, coherent answer to that question.

      by happymisanthropy on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 05:56:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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