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View Diary: More minimum wage votes! (or using the filibuster to our advantage) (102 comments)

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  •  Take the House? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    The Dems are looking over the abyss of losing the Senate.
    But it is a good thing that KXL opponents can claim a moral victory.

    KXL is so highly politicized and convoluted - but is it worth losing control of the Senate to the GOP? Nearly all of the Dem senators at risk signed a recent letter to Obama urging approval. It's not the only issue, but in GOP-leaning states that have significant energy industries, it is a major one. And, yes, a Republican Senate will have significant impacts beyond environmental issues - - like wages.

    I'll get back to you after Nov. 4th.

    •  PS - (0+ / 0-)

      Obama and Reid could craft a deal overnight which paired approval of KXL with an extension of unemployment benefits and increased minimum wage.


      •  Tell me how you get to that vote count (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aquarius40, DiesIrae, freakofsociety

        Who votes how.  Names.

        Both Houses.

        Which Republicans are going to vote to increase the minimum wage AND extend unemployment benefits in exchange for KXL?  

        This kind of hyperbole is best left to anonymous blogs and not to the actual process of negotiations.

        So, yes, I call your bluff, put your (named) cards on the table.  Overnight, you say?

        "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

        by Uncle Moji on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:08:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I Will - (0+ / 0-)

          But let me remind you that you don't have diddly-squat when it comes to what I will and won't do.

          Senate -

          2013 Vote - 62 to 37 in favor including 17 Dems.
          62 is more than enough for cloture.

          House -

          The House has voted many times in favor of Keystone.
          Most recently 241 to 175 on a partisan bill to circumvent presidential approval - - which is more partisan than any joint agreement would be. The House, by the way, does have a 233 to 199 GOP majority - in case you have forgotten.


          Would such a compromise lose some GOp support - sure - but it would also gain significant Democratic support.  Bills such as this usually gain far more support than they lose because they provide positive campaign points while providing cover for any negatives - regardless of party or position.

          Thus, Republicans can claim they are jump-starting the economy while agreeing to unemployment and wage components which will not hurt them.  And Democrats can claim the unemployment and wage benefits without worrying about Keystone - which has majority support, anyhoo.

          •  You seem to think negotation is only about math (0+ / 0-)

            This is why you would be thrill to sit across a table from during a negotiation, we eat arrogant newbies like you up before breakfast.  

            You seem to fail to understand deal-making is in the detail.  You make claims based on generic broad assumptions without any actual specifics.  

            I asked for all the names for a reason.  And you won't give us all the names for a reason.  Because it would be ridiculously easy to pick apart your "overnight" deal based on your silly claims that YOU KNOW precisely how 535 individuals will vote on a proposal that does not exist.  So, I ask again, name names.  And I will pick them apart name by name.  And challenge your claim again.  "Overnight"? Did you say?  

            Again, it is clear you have never negotiated anything of serious import both representing and sitting across the table from a group with conflicting and competing interests.  It is actually a highly skilled profession.  It's why a lot of labor negotiators play poker to relax - because that sh*ts easier and the pot is never worth billions for you to lose if you make a mistake.

            I expected "diddly-squat" from you to prove your claim that a deal was there to be made "overnight" and you delivered.  Shakespeare says it best:

            ...a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

            "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

            by Uncle Moji on Thu May 01, 2014 at 10:59:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Do You Tell Everybody to "Fcuk Off"? (0+ / 0-)

              Or am I the focus of your affections?

              Did a quick scan of some of your comments -
              And I would surely question any negotiating skills you might have.

              Why don't you - in all your wisdom - tell me a better way to get the Republicans to agree to some sort of increase in the minimum wage and/or unemployment benefits?

              Maybe play old "Touched by an Angel" episodes until Boehner cries himself to death??

      •  which would lead to massive losses in the house (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, Zinman, Big River Bandido

        and senate if they approved keystone by demotivating the base. The climate and the drinking water for 5 million + united states citizens is not a bargaining chip. Especially for a min wage increase that is woefully inadequate and for a temporary extension of unemployment benefits that would expire and once again be used as a hostage chip.

        Extending the Bush (now Obama) tax cuts for 6 months of unemployment benefits netted the 1% billions upon billions and now the political class is unwilling to extend them further now that they have got what they wanted. Bad strategy.  

        “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

        by Tool on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:08:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah - - (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Because even among Dems, 49% support to 38% oppose.
          And Independents (It usually takes a few Ind voted to get elected.)
          61% support to 29% oppose.

          So, yeah, it would be devastating to Democrats to support Keystone.

        •  Political tradeoffs (0+ / 0-)

          I think that the motivational value of passing the minimum wage increase would be far greater than the demotivational effect of approving KXL.  First, I suspect that more voters care strongly about the minimum wage than about the pipeline, but there's also the issue of where those voters are.  And I suspect that the voters who will be strongly motivated by KXL are mostly in heavily Democratic districts, anyway..

          So disregarding any arguments over the merits of the policies in question, I think that the political issue is that such a compromise would be more likely to lead to gains in the House than losses.

          If Democrats proclaim the the Earth is round and Republicans insist it is flat, we will shortly see a column in the Washington Post claiming the the earth is really a semi-circle.

          by TexasTom on Thu May 01, 2014 at 12:30:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Too much angst over losing the Senate. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      high uintas

      It could happen with the current economy.
      And -- Republicans are starting to realize thate "Repeal Obamacare" is a capital L Loser.

      But -- 5 seats is a lot to pick up and Republicans look pretty bad these days and the Senatorial math is no worse (or barely worse) than it was in 2012.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:04:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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