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View Diary: It is time to embrace criticisms of the Democratic Party to ensure it lives up to its tenets (146 comments)

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  •  I've felt for (47+ / 0-)

    the last twenty or so years that the party has left me. I'm now off in the hippie wing - and I was pretty much a middle-of-the-road Democrat forty years ago.

    I'd like a party that's left of center and that I can vote for without having to hold my nose.

    (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

    by PJEvans on Sun May 04, 2014 at 06:36:47 PM PDT

    •  I disagree (26+ / 0-)

      From your brief self-description, I'd have to say you represent the majority of Americans. Half this country is to the left of the Democratic Party leadership--especially today, post-Bush. They just have nobody to vote for. Alan Graysons and Al Frankens are few and far between.

      And they're looking at Hillary and HOPING.

      "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

      by DaddyO on Sun May 04, 2014 at 07:01:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  continuum (7+ / 0-)

      I like to think we can live in a continuum of beliefs, where we can admit we might not be absolutely correct, and some flexibility is acceptable.

      For instance, Bill Clinton is sometimes seen as corporate democrat, but we might have had a better version of Obamacare if democrats had rallied more and republicans had been more flexible. Also look at the presidency and you see unemployment dropped for all races and genders, not just for white men.  Why have republicans become so entrenched? Because democrats are, as imperfect as the policies may be, helping everyone, not just the privileged few.

      By insisting on some purity test, some litmus test, some dogma, we make the same mistakes that is making the Republicans irrelevant. Honoring some arbitrary code instead of doing what governement does best, using shared resources to make everyone's life better.

      •  Personally I'm tired of all the baloney (22+ / 0-)

        about 'purity tests', 'litmus tests' and 'dogma", As far as I'm concerned that's just saying 'shut-the-fuck-up and toe the line' with fewer syllables.

        No.

        I will only vote for candidates that I believe deserve my vote. I won't see any coming from the Republicans, so its important to me that the Democratic party have them.

        I won't be held hostage. You might think principles are some 'arbitrary code' but I don't.

        •  you can be tired of it all you want (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bush Bites, rduran, doroma, ban nock, Amber6541

          I'm tired of people screaming 'corporatist sellout!' the second they think someone is deviating one degree from their supposed wisdom. And no that's not directed at you particularly more a general compliant I have about many of those that love to beat their chest and decide who is and is not of 'the left'.

          You can vote however you want but what got the GOP the power it had and even has (despite it's slow death) is it has been unified. Does that have it's down sides? Sure but that's also life. No choice is perfect all have their positives and negatives. To refuse to accept that is purely childish.

          I often wonder what Obama's numbers would be like if people criticized but then backed him. Or for that matter what the electorate would be like. It's entirely possible that nothing would change; it's also possible that things would.

          Der Weg ist das Ziel

          by duhban on Sun May 04, 2014 at 07:56:47 PM PDT

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          •  What the HELL do you think we're doing? (12+ / 0-)
            I often wonder what Obama's numbers would be like if people criticized but then backed him. Or for that matter what the electorate would be like.
            Everyone whose been here over the last six or eight years has done this. We knew we weren't getting a liberal president. We're ticked because we're not even getting a Democratic president, on so many issues. We've been pushing for years. You come along, years afterward and whine because we're not doing it the way you think we should. Kid, get your head out of your tail!

            (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

            by PJEvans on Sun May 04, 2014 at 08:12:04 PM PDT

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            •  What am I doing? (3+ / 0-)

              I'm voicing my opinion on the matter.  You don't have to like it or agree with it but it has the same right to exist as your own opinion.

              And really? Because while I will not name names I find the idea that everyone here in the end backs the president in specific and democrats in general....well incredulous to be polite.

              Der Weg ist das Ziel

              by duhban on Sun May 04, 2014 at 08:32:33 PM PDT

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              •  Do you know how hypocritical that comment is? (3+ / 0-)

                You are entitled to your opinion but so are the people you keep bitching at and attacking.   Not only are you and Richard Villiers whining, you are off topic and dragging in a straw dog.   The diarist SAID!

                No one is looking for absolute purity in a party’s doctrine. That said, one must guard against a slow drift that in real time seem marginal. In the aggregate, the sum total of marginal changes is rather profound.
                Many of us here expect and demand equal justice under the law and a government of, by and for the people - not corporations and the .001%.   This is called democracy in America, and we quite frankly don't care if you think that is a litmus test or not.  We are as sick of your excuses for failure as you are our demands for success.    So if you quit whining like you did just now, we'll quit whining about your whining.

                I will not vote for Hillary. What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

                by dkmich on Mon May 05, 2014 at 04:04:26 AM PDT

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                •  when did I ever say they weren't? (0+ / 0-)

                  But while you're whining about your pseudo 'me first' nonsense and throwing around terms I don't think you quite understand let's be clear here. People can whine, complain, criticize or anything else they want. That doesn't mean I should take them seriously or that anyone else will.

                  There's  definitely things I agree could be done better but there's also things I plain disagree with. The issue becomes when you or anyone else only want respect for your opinion.

                  You know it's funny with the arm chair revolunaries and warriors is that what do you actually do? I mean besides obviously be nothing but constantly negative. And while I'm asking questions do you not understand that constant negativity is a turn off? That when all you do is say 'they suck' you're not really providing anything constructive? And I mean that is not even touching on the 2 party aspect of American politics.

                  Enjoy your purity and do not worry the rest of us will take care of actually effecting change.

                  Der Weg ist das Ziel

                  by duhban on Mon May 05, 2014 at 07:15:03 AM PDT

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                  •  I'm not taking you seriously (1+ / 0-)

                    You aren't being serious. You are being ridiculous, off topic, derogatory, illogical, and nonconstructive, disrupting the conversation to yell "Purity Test!" when the diarist had already addressed your tiny, limp little point.

                    You do not represent the majority opinion, either here at this site, or in America in general. You are not being specific, but are simply throwing around vague generalities, straw man and ad hominem arguements. While not accusing you of such, I will note that your behavior is indicative of an authoritarian personality type. In other words, a right winger at heart.

                    I'm sure you don't mean to come of as an authoritarian right wing protector of the status quo, so I am doing you the favor of informing you that that is how you are coming across. Hope it helps.

                    •  and you think you do? (0+ / 0-)

                      And spare me your passive aggressive bulllshit. Either have the courage to call me authoritarian or don't, not that it terribly matters what random people on the internet that barely know me accuse me of.

                      You think you know me? How laughable I stand by initial post on the topic and really you're just proving me right.

                      Good day.

                      Der Weg ist das Ziel

                      by duhban on Mon May 05, 2014 at 01:37:50 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Passive aggressive? (1+ / 0-)

                        No, what I wrote wasn't passive.

                        I don't know you, just what you project here, in this conversation.

                        You project slavish, unquestioning submission to authority.

                        Perhaps that isn't who you are all the time, I'll just have to take your word on that.

                        •  you don't even know that (0+ / 0-)

                          the irony is you are myopically accusing me of being authoritative and yet here you are acting like you know what's going in my head.

                          Here's a tip for you you have no room to talk about 'unquestioning submission to authority' when you're demanding I submit to your authority.

                          Get over yourself

                          Der Weg ist das Ziel

                          by duhban on Mon May 05, 2014 at 02:09:34 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

        •  This needs to be the standard reply to every (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead

          "purity test" argument on this site ever. So very well said.

          I won't believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. Leo Gerard.

          by tgrshark13 on Sun May 04, 2014 at 08:17:32 PM PDT

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        •  We don't need purity yet we need standards (0+ / 0-)

          Sometimes the line gets blurry depending on one's perspective. We need agreement on where that line is. On a minimum number of essential issues we can check off on any given candidate, like some 7 out of 10 number.

        •  Then you should be able to defend them (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          duhban

          or at the very least articulate them in a fashion better than say..."he's a lousy corporate Dem and if you disagree then I can't tell you nuttin."

          Of course, it's a free country.  People can vote their principles no matter how poorly justified they are.

      •  I'm late to the party but this is perfectly stated (0+ / 0-)

        Hope you don't mind if I quote you at some point.

        Not all people are human; not all humans are people.

        by Jon Sitzman on Wed May 07, 2014 at 09:27:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yet raising wages and equality are top headlines (0+ / 0-)

      Equality for women's wages, equality if opportunity are at least common themes being heard in the merde stream media. Gay marriage acceptance has done a 180 recently. Everyone is aware of the 1% and the Koch bros. Our messages are being heard replacing the memes about the deficit. We've seen some filibuster reform.

      To think that we aren't having an effect is not true. We're still far from our goals but the Democrats are at least starting to run with the ball we've been trying to hand them and we are framing the conversation more and more.

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