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View Diary: Ikea introduces meatless meatballs, highlights need for more action to help cut meat consumption (40 comments)

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  •  meatless this and that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slowbutsure, VL Baker

    no mention of population control.

    The sun's not yellow, it's chicken. B. Dylan

    by bgblcklab1 on Thu May 08, 2014 at 03:13:28 PM PDT

    •  reducing livestock is humane population control.. (2+ / 0-)
      We breed 68 billion animals each year (2009 data), and that whereas humanity consumes just 12% of global appropriated net primary production (NPP), livestock consume 58% of NPP.  Reducing meat consumption is indeed a natural and humane population control.

      We devote a quarter of the global land surface to livestock production, we feed them 45% of the world’s grain, while they provide just 17% of human energy intake (UNFAO, 2011).

      Also in US livestock production utilizes 50% of water use!

      http://climatecolab.org/...

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Thu May 08, 2014 at 03:35:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Population control would be a more effective (0+ / 0-)

        way of reducing meat consumption and reducing the number of livestock animals, in addition to increasing the quality of life.  Humans stacked upon humans eating granola is no way to live.

        The sun's not yellow, it's chicken. B. Dylan

        by bgblcklab1 on Thu May 08, 2014 at 03:52:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I wrote about population.... (2+ / 0-)

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          We use land the size of Africa for livestock production. With a greatly reduced amount we would have a lot more land for humans.

          Macca's Meatless Monday

          by VL Baker on Thu May 08, 2014 at 04:13:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My point is we cannot have more humans (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pvasileff

            and still have a sustainable environment.  Nature has a way of correcting overpopulation, either by disease, starvation or predation (war in the case of humans).  It will happen eventually regardless of granola consumption.  We have the technology to control our population but not the political or religious will to do so.  To put up this sham fix of meatless Tuesday and believe that infinite human growth is possible is completely dishonest.  

            The sun's not yellow, it's chicken. B. Dylan

            by bgblcklab1 on Thu May 08, 2014 at 05:06:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  no one said that infinite population growth (0+ / 0-)

              is possible. Did you read my link? There's a lot more to it than just reducing population.  

              Macca's Meatless Monday

              by VL Baker on Thu May 08, 2014 at 05:11:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Reducing the population is step 1,2 and 3 (0+ / 0-)

                Behaving in a responsible manner is more important like stopping the use of long lived plastics, incorporating carbon recycling (we can power much of our cities by making use of our sewage, as well as recovering valuable minerals) water recycling ( we can drink our own piss after treatment).  We can stop pretending we can build cities in deserts and face no eventual environmental penalty.
                Reducing meat consumption, (which you are apparently obsessed with) is small potatoes in terms of serious environmental issues.

                The sun's not yellow, it's chicken. B. Dylan

                by bgblcklab1 on Thu May 08, 2014 at 05:40:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh boy. I am gonna have to disagree with you, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  VL Baker

                  bgblcklab1.  Although, there are many issues to tackle as you mention, power plants, cement production and industrial agricultural practices are the biggest human causes of ghg emissions.  The EPA understates the number for agriculture by including large parts of it in categories like deforestation, commercial, waste management and transportation.  But, when you look at the full lifecycle of (industrial, not sustainable) meat/dairy production, it's a huge problem.  That full lifecycle doesn't just start with clearing vast areas of land for the GMO crops, someone's got to manufacture all of those pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers, antibiotics, massive farm equipment for all of those chemicals and mining/extracting all the materials to create all that unnecessary stuff.  There is no question that eating sustainable, locally produced food is a great way to impact climate change without an act of Congress.

                  Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Policy, Center for a Livable Future has done a lot of work on this as has the UNFCC.

            •  The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has done (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VL Baker

              research to show that the best way to control the population is women's reproductive health.  In countries with high infant mortality rate, women tend to have more children.  When women's reproductive health is introduced, population growth cycle is halted.

              Here's a link that explains it better.

              VL, nice.  See, your message is getting out!  You should be proud of this one.

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