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View Diary: Breaking: Equal Rights for Atheists Denied by Massachusetts Court (100 comments)

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  •  OK (9+ / 0-)

    I'm an atheist, but I don't see how this falls under losing equal rights. I think having "under God" in the pledge is stupid so I just don't say it. But I'm hesitant to even recite the pledge to begin with.

    If I am in a situation where the pledge is being recited I usually stand but remain silent. I have the right to do that.

    You know, I believe 110% in the separation of church and state and when that is encroached upon I get angry. But this decision doesn't raise my hackles all that much. I have the right to not say those two words and other people have the right to say it. This seems rather uncontroversial to me.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Fri May 09, 2014 at 10:44:46 AM PDT

    •  It's a little different when you are a school age (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, jodylanec, anon004

      kid and stand out when you don't stand up or speak out to mouth words that have no meaning to you or your classmates.  Peer pressure to participate is very strong and youngsters like these should not be put into those situations.  We really do not do ourselves any favors when we do show favoritism to any religion or acknowledge the existence of one in a government-sponsored setting.  The latest mind-bending pretzel-logic decision from SCOTUS notwithstanding.  
      There were excellent reasons that the first part of the first right granted to US citizens had to do with separation of religion and state. (What's with the church shit?  it's all of those abominations; churches, synagogues, mosques, kivas, whatever.)  I DON'T WANT THEM TO BE PART OF ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH GOVERNMENT.  Neither did Madison, Jefferson or any of those "revered" founders that asshats like Scalia and his brethren pray to. They can't even get that right!

      You all laugh because I'm different; I laugh because you're all the same

      by sajiocity on Fri May 09, 2014 at 11:13:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's been established that saying (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib

        "Under God" does not put one religion over another. It can mean any God (although that does default to mostly Abrahamic God's, as many other religions wouldn't be monotheistic).

        Nevertheless, our constitutional rights aren't there to protect us from judgment from others or to protect against possible ostracism. Could children be ostracized for not saying the pledge or those words? Absolutely. But I don't want to live in a world where rights are determined based on hurt feelings.

        And, I suspect, you don't, either.

        I got reamed on fb the other day for making a snide comment about Jesus. It hurt someone's feefees. BFD. Deal with that and I deal with your Christian BS and if you can't handle it, ignore it.

        P.S. I am not a crackpot.

        by BoiseBlue on Fri May 09, 2014 at 11:41:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't forget the bruises and black eyes (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sajiocity

          and such because the other kids decided to beat him up after school for refusing to say the pledge.  But of course that doesn't matter, after all "punishment" only applies to official punishment and like you said, our constitutional rights aren't there to protect us from judgment from others or to protect against possible ostracism.

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Fri May 09, 2014 at 11:46:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  true, but (4+ / 0-)
          It's been established that saying (0+ / 0-)

          "Under God" does not put one religion over another.

          it does put religion over nonreligion.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Fri May 09, 2014 at 01:07:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Innerestin' question. (0+ / 0-)

            If atheism is not a religion, as I am often told- is atheism eligible for religious protections?

            •  Strange how those who inisist (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sajiocity, anon004

              that atheism is a religion are the first to insist that atheism does not merit religious protections. :-)

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Fri May 09, 2014 at 01:31:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I don't care if YOU hurt my feelings if you (0+ / 0-)

          want to make fun of my religion or non religion - that's not a government-sanctioned event. Unless they make it one by speaking of gods when you're the only 9-year old in the room who knows this is bullshit and keeps quiet. You don't think that goes unnoticed? Then, these bullies (who will always be with us, yes, yes) now have the power of authority behind them to single you out because of your beliefs or not. "They said "under god" who are you to question?  Jesus is just all right with me. Why can't you just accept that and not feel bad?" Not OK.  
          It's way more than hurt feelings. It's the state setting a standard. Even though I was still a developing atheist when those offensive two words were inserted (thanks, Ike) I knew it was wrong and have suffered ever since, one way or the other.
          And now, those twisted turds at the Supreme Court have just ripped the heart out of the most crucial element of the first amendment.  How  crucial?  Every damn war fought in Europe before the 18th Century was state-religion-based. And do I need to mention the Inquisition?
          Am I over the top about this?  Yep, because the slope just got a hell of a lot more slippy.

          You all laugh because I'm different; I laugh because you're all the same

          by sajiocity on Fri May 09, 2014 at 06:21:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  It's not uncontroversial. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MyOwnReality, anon004

      The government in the guise of a public school is telling children that "God" exists. This is a statement that has no evidence behind it and is an unsettled theological question. It has no business being recited in a public school especially when it has a captive audience of children.

    •  I loathe the pledge. Definitely makes for some (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BoiseBlue

      uncomfortable moments.

      To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

      by UntimelyRippd on Fri May 09, 2014 at 12:43:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sure it's easy, if you're not a child surrounded (0+ / 0-)

      by children you hope will be your friends and not your judge and jury.

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