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View Diary: Somebody finally gets the 'fair and balanced' part of climate change debate right: John Oliver (84 comments)

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  •  Yep and Oliver is Exactly Where I've Been on This (68+ / 0-)

    debate-debate. We don't debate the facts of climate change. His reason is because they're facts and facts aren't debatable, mine is that we're not climate scientists either, any more than the opposition is [Nye's a mechanical engineer], and so all we do by consenting to debate is to elevate our philosophy to equal or greater standing than the technical expertise and its practitioners.

    The debate as Oliver says -- and the only staged debates and co-interviews scientists and activists should consent to-- is over what to do about the facts.

    Or else, why are the facts being denied, and what should we do with opinion and governance leaders who deny facts.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon May 12, 2014 at 12:02:32 PM PDT

    •  you don't need to be a weatherman (13+ / 0-)

      or a climate scientist to see which way the wind blows.

      This year its blowing west to east and thus we have an el Nino year. California may get some drought relief and the Southwest US is going to be hotter than Hades.

      What we can do about it is another story. Maybe invent a time machine and go back a couple of centuries to prevent the industrial revolution. Short of that we are pretty much fucked.

      We could I suppose have Obama issue an executive order declaring martial law, making the burning of carbon a capital offense putting all the Republicans and media and 1% ers from Energy companies in FEMA camps.

      We would still have China burning coal and most of Asia having to wear respirators to breath, plus we would still lose 100 East and Gulf coast cities with populations over 100,000 and their suburbs starting around 2035.

      Thanks are due to Bill Nye, Mooney, Oliver and Obama.

      "la vida no vale nada un lugar solita" "The Limits of Control Jim Jarmusch

      by rktect on Mon May 12, 2014 at 12:36:45 PM PDT

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      •  Frankly, I'm not too sure about owls. (14+ / 0-)

        That head-turning-all-the-way-around thing is just an Exorcist joke, I think. Totally photoshopped.

        "I wish you luck on not hating your parents for mixing up such an unthinkable person." --The frickin´ HP--

        by McWaffle on Mon May 12, 2014 at 01:07:01 PM PDT

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      •  If 50% of the US doubted the existence of (6+ / 0-)

        owls, would you suggest showing videos, pictures, feathers, and live owls....

        Or stamping and screaming "You stupid fucks aren't even ornithologists!!!"?

        When all the facts are on your side (and they are) present the facts.  Over and over.

        That doesn't mean, of course, anyone ought to refrain from deriding the assholes working for transnationals who are desperate to obfuscate, lie, and bullshit the public.  They need to be discredited, concretely.

        But we didn't go from "skepticism about whether cigarette smoking causes lung cancer" to "near universal certitude that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer" by credible doctors refusing to engage (and tear to shreds) the arguments of industry shills.

        “Poor people have access to American courts in the same sense that Christians thrown to lions had access to the Coliseum.” — Earl Johnson Jr., retired justice,California State Court of Appeal

        by JesseCW on Mon May 12, 2014 at 03:07:01 PM PDT

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        •  Not on television in these constrained formats... (9+ / 0-)

          ...though. Most of the fight went on behind the scenes. And it took 50 years.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Mon May 12, 2014 at 04:02:17 PM PDT

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          •  Many of those fights took place on television, in (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wonmug

            the newspapers, and on the floor of Congress.

            It took about 40 years.  But they won.  Not all at once - year after year they gained ground.

            But we're losing ground on public understanding of global warming.  More and more elitists pricks shouting at people that they're idiots for not understanding the science has cost us public support.  The more your "advice" has been followed the further behind we've fallen.

            There's no evidence that "We're right because we're the experts" has ever won.  Particularly not in this country.

            Fewer people recognize the fact of evolution today than 40 years ago.  That's been the result of "ending the debate", and leaving idiots unchallenged.

            That's what the authoritarian idiocy the front page staff here has collectively agreed to catapult (from Hunter insisting we stop educating people about vaccines and just scream at them, to you arguing we should stop trying to explain global warming while more than half the country doesn't realize it's real) does.

            It loses the argument.  Every.  Goddamn.  Time.

            That doesn't mean anyone needs to put up with efforts to "teach the controversy" in our textbooks.  But it does make it clear - to anyone more interested in solving problems than blowing on their hillbilly hate dog whistle at every damned opportunity because of their cough "resentments" - that refusing to show up for the fight doesn't lead to victory.

            “Poor people have access to American courts in the same sense that Christians thrown to lions had access to the Coliseum.” — Earl Johnson Jr., retired justice,California State Court of Appeal

            by JesseCW on Tue May 13, 2014 at 11:17:05 AM PDT

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      •  I think that's just a chihuahua in the skin (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Noodles

        of a miniature zebra with a weird hat.

    •  I see a room for education. All of us should be... (10+ / 0-)

      ...able to describe the science underlying global warming in lay man's terms.

      The majority of people are in the middle and confused by the disinformation campaign.

      Being able to explain why indeed this is like "Do Owls Exist?" or "What's greater, 15 or 5?" - beyond just "because climate scientists said so" should be rather useful in most cases.

    •  Does it work? "We're the authorities, and we (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fiona West, MPociask

      don't have to explain to you plebes why we're right".

      Does it work?

      Has this approach gotten vaccination rates back up?  Has it convinced anyone that climate change is real and that we're causing it?

      I get that it feels good.

      But it will never convince anyone.  It never has.

      “Poor people have access to American courts in the same sense that Christians thrown to lions had access to the Coliseum.” — Earl Johnson Jr., retired justice,California State Court of Appeal

      by JesseCW on Mon May 12, 2014 at 03:02:33 PM PDT

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      •  A hell of a lot more peole accept the reality of (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Yonit, Creosote, Sychotic1, JerryNA

        climate change now than did 10 years ago.  Apparently, according to this clip, 3 out of 4 Americans do.  This is at least in part because progressives, honest reporters, and scientists have PUT OUT INFORMATION, often in clear ways, with graphics and pictures.  Yeah, polar bears on little ice floes.  Parts of Bangladesh that used to be fields, now underwater, with people living on house boats.  Little island nations where everybody has to move.  Washed out highways along what used to be beaches in South Carolina.

        WE, THE GOOD GUYS, HAVE PUT OUT A LOT OF INFO!  And it has, slowly, frustratingly slowly, incompletely, but surely, made a difference.

        We have to keep explaining climate change.  Facts are our natural mode of operation, or at least part of it.  We also have to just point out and connect the dots between experiences people are increasingly having, and the meaning of those experiences.

        Farmers who haven't moved in generations are in a different climate zone than they used to be.  Yellowheaded blackbirds are migrating weeks earlier in the Midwest.  We lost part of our corn crop in 2012 because there were days too hot for the forming ears to survive.  And so on. And so on.  Use facts and use nature.  Tell people the story that the Earth is telling us.

        But those one-on-one debates, as if there were an equal contest between science and the deniers -- we can do without that.

        Keep telling the people the truth, but it's time to ignore the dead-enders.

        --------------------- “These are troubling times. Corporation are treated like people. People are treated like things. …And if we ever needed to vote, we sure do need to vote now.” -- Rev. Dr. William J. Barber

        by Fiona West on Mon May 12, 2014 at 04:47:53 PM PDT

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    •  It is truly about beliefs- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bruce Brown

      Faux news knows how to phuck with people because they frame Nye with that "belief" crap-  O'Reilly leads in with it in the clip...

      Beliefs are what is not known-

      Say it again, and say it at a suggestive programming pace, at about 48 bps, over and over and over and over again... Hells best kept secret has kept MadMen and PR firms in buttons and bows and is why Jay Leno can do the "Man on the street" interview, and piss himself laughing at the rampant stupidity mined from the street, infected from corporate TeeVee-

      Set a metronome at 48 bps and softly utter the following over and over again, over all cable and Network TeeVee and the problem would be easily solved...

      Beliefs.are.what.is.not.known (Paternal)
      Climate change is a known scientific fact (Maternal)
      Beliefs.are.what.is.not.known (Paternal)
      Climate change is a known scientific fact (Maternal)
      Beliefs.are.what.is.not.known- (Paternal)
      Climate change is a known scientific fact-
      Beliefs.are.what.is.not.known- (Paternal)

      OverandOverandOverandOverandOverRinseRepeat

      Climate change has been known to be caused by human activity for quite some time n o w aka left brain science, and each time the "Beliefs" stuff is allowed, well it is what you don't know!

      So the point cannot be made with left brain science when informing the masses, and corpse media KNOWS that left brain fact, and has since the right brain peacock image dazzled the masses via NTSC colour-  Take that peacock away and folks get REAL PISSED-

      Make the known points with right brain suggestive programming and then the business of correction can begin.

      The 1% running the media circus shows KNOWS that fact and practices that fact in Hypnosis on many levels, daily, monthly, yearly, and over DECADES...

      :♥)

      Evidence that contradicts the ruling belief system is held to extraordinary standards, while evidence that entrenches it is uncritically accepted. -Carl Sagan

      by RF on Mon May 12, 2014 at 03:59:11 PM PDT

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    •  Kinda reminds me of the Super Collider debate (0+ / 0-)

      where the guy who sued claiming the a black hole will be created that will swallow the earth. Even though he acknowledged the odds were 10,000,000 to 1 against this happening, he insisted that its really 50/50 since it will either happen or it wont happen...50/50...

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