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View Diary: All the apologetic defenses against network neutrality are fallacious (35 comments)

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  •  the shareholders. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JVolvo

    who else?

    There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

    by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:28:38 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Why should the shareholders of the Internet pipes (0+ / 0-)

      pay? Why not the shareholders of Netflix and YouTube? If not them, why not the customers of Comcast and Verizon?

      "let's talk about that" uid 92953

      by VClib on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:34:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because they Want the reward of increased demand? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JVolvo

        There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

        by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:43:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  why SHOULDN'T they? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JVolvo

        There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

        by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:44:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because they don't need to (0+ / 0-)

          They should try and pass the increase capital costs to customers and if the market will bear it, that's what they have a fiduciary duty to do.  

          "let's talk about that" uid 92953

          by VClib on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:50:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Philosophically I disagree (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JVolvo

            corporations have more than a responsibility to their shareholders, they have a social responsibility as well that is even more important and is first priority.

            There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

            by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:53:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Corporations have no social responsibility (0+ / 0-)

              except to follow all local, state and federal laws, rules, and regulations. Under Delaware law, where about half the US public companies are incorporated, officers and directors have only a fiduciary duty to shareholders and no other stakeholder.

              "let's talk about that" uid 92953

              by VClib on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:56:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  legally speaking ,yes that's technically correct (0+ / 0-)

                but I'm not referring to the law.

                There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

                by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 09:00:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  which btw OUGHT to be Changed to expressly Dictate (0+ / 0-)

                said Social responsibility.

                There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

                by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 09:01:38 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  the cult of shareholder value. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ozy

                  is the world's dumbest idea.

                  There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

                  by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 09:54:26 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  For those companies incorporated in Delaware (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  daeros

                  the officers and directors have to view their decisions through the lens of what is in the long term best interest of shareholders. To me, and I am a public company director of a Delaware company, that has absolutely nothing to do with next quarters earnings or short term stock prices. The law allows directors to take the long view, although unfortunately many do not.

                  "let's talk about that" uid 92953

                  by VClib on Mon May 12, 2014 at 10:09:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I have found that I can make a killing (0+ / 0-)

                    Listening to the mistakes of others rather than Brazenly making my own. These days I usually Like to check how people "Normally go wrong" when trying something Novel.

                    I say this because it seems like me and you would actually have more in common than you Think, although I'm much more rooted in Anti-capitalist Philosophy because I've seen  it go So Awry.

                    Although when it comes to "Long term" Thinking I know what you mean.

                    I really do want to be a Therapist myself at this point because I know I can Listen to people but then on the Side Harness the Wisdom Garnished from their Mistakes.

                    My clients would cause me to retire Wealthy.  ah Damn it kos, Truncating my images

                    http://imgur.com/...

                    That's an an account out there in the Abyss with 1320 invested that's yielding about 20 percent a month.

                    I've given more to the Democratic Party this year than the rest of my life combined.

                    Yes it's Bitcoin profits, no I don't get paid in BTC tho. I just invest in it.

                    There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

                    by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 10:21:28 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Free market or some shit. Actually, more like (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          daeros

          dividends and share price increase are what they are due.

          The Third Way ain't My Way!

          by JVolvo on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:57:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  more to the point why should the government help (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JVolvo

        them avoid paying it?

        There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

        by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:49:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is certainly a case that Netflix and Youtube (0+ / 0-)

          should pay.

          "let's talk about that" uid 92953

          by VClib on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:51:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the unintended consequences of these kind of rule (0+ / 0-)

            changes are not going to be that Netflix or Amazon or youtube or any of them end up paying comcast and Verzion for fast lane access so that comcast can afford to expand it's services. In the end me and you both know that even if those big fish DO pay for expanded services the amount of compensation will not be used to expand internet services as the argument commonly goes, they will say rationally speaking they could do so but empirically we both know instead the investors will just eat the profits. Meanwhile Instead of working out as intended other parties will buy Priority access and sites like the one you're debating on now will slow to a crawl.

            There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

            by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:59:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  just look at how It worked out when they undid net (0+ / 0-)

            neutrality in Europe. Test bed. Also I don't believe in American exceptionalism so "america is different" isn't going to get you anywhere.

            There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

            by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 09:04:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  VC stands for Vancouver or Venture Capitalist? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        daeros

        I have my guess...

        The Third Way ain't My Way!

        by JVolvo on Mon May 12, 2014 at 08:59:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have no idea (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JVolvo

          He is ALWAYS here and for some reason always supplying arguments that seem to be attempts to defend the market. He's ALWAYS crafting excuses for them.

          There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

          by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 09:02:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's no secret (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          daeros, nextstep

          I spent twenty years as a venture capitalist before I retired. I have also co-founded numerous companies as an entrepreneur, two of which went public. I currently serve on boards both of both public and private companies. It's a different perspective than most people here.

          I grew up in a fourth floor walkup tenement, the son of a Depression Era high school dropout.  My dad was a blue collar union member. My family, and I, have been active in Democratic politics since I was eight years old. I self funded my way through college and graduate school.  

          Venture investors help build companies. I feel lucky to be given an opportunity to be in the industry.

          "let's talk about that" uid 92953

          by VClib on Mon May 12, 2014 at 10:00:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I kind of got that impression. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib

            the party has not really ever been Anti-capitalist. Although the Republicans try to paint us as such. We're very pro-business but it's a different kind of business that's a lot more Long term and I think Career like in the Democratic party.... The republicans are a bunch of Short term profiteering Neanderthals from I can see that don't prepare at all for catastrophe and think everything will just work out if they have faith in God.

            There is no such thing as False hope- there is only Hope.

            by daeros on Mon May 12, 2014 at 10:30:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Democratic Party attracts anti- capitalists at the (0+ / 0-)

              fringe and Republicans attract racists at the fringe.

              Everyone needs a home and for the most part the political spectrum has only two homes.

              The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

              by nextstep on Tue May 13, 2014 at 10:28:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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