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View Diary: Republican frontrunner for Senate in Montana wants schools to teach creationism (193 comments)

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  •  This is a FauxNews affiliate? (0+ / 0-)

    As much as I've enjoyed the news articles coming from the Daily KOS, I've noticed an alarming trend of late.  And, as repugnant as I find the beliefs of Rep. Steve Daines and as horrifying as I find the idea that he's actually a lawmaker in this land, for the DK to publish an article that creates a "pretend fact" of a giant space turtle" for the purposes of an argument and then to imply repeatedly that Rep. Steve Daines actually believes in this giant space turtle, and then to have this article create an elaborate fantasy involving the belief of this turtle is EXACTLY the kind of cheap, sensationalist and disingenuous ranting passing for journalism that makes me feel ill when someone in my vicinity turns on Fox Spews on a TV.

    •  I think you should reread the diary. Hunter (10+ / 0-)

      was not suggesting that this is Rep. Daines' belief, only that his belief might be equivalent to the "giant space turtle" theory.

      In one fell swoop he provides a scenario (not theory) that is even less probable than the current ID scenario and avoids treading on a multitude of toes.

      I'm guessing that you signed up today for the purpose of responding to this diary, since all your comments, so far, have been here. Welcome to Daily Kos. And enjoy reading the DiskWorld series by Terry Pratchett, should you decide you want further background in this area.

      I'm not at all sure, even after reading your comment twice, where you got the "cheap, sensationalist and disingenuous ranting passing for journalism" bit from. This is, as much as anything, an OpEd piece.

      Metaphor is not barred when doing a righteous riff on current news, though it is frowned upon in straight reporting. That Fox cannot be bothered to make the distinction is a separate question.

      At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

      by serendipityisabitch on Fri May 16, 2014 at 03:57:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK. I re-read the diary. (0+ / 0-)

        And, amazingly enough, although I can't find where I said that the diary SAID Daines believed in the giant turtle theory, you honestly think

        "We can believe that the earth is balanced on the back of a giant space turtle. After we go to space and take pictures that show no turtle there, however, we can no longer "believe" that with any credibility. We don't (most of us) suggest that the turtle is simply invisible. We don't (most of us) say that the turtle only exists when nobody is looking at it. We don't (most of us) suggest that scientists have spirited the turtle away because they don't want us to know the truth about the giant space turtle, or that they are involved in the lucrative cash business of pretending there are no turtles in places that there are turtles. We don't (most of us) do that.

        But some do. If the thermometers say the temperature is rising, they assert all the thermometers in the world must be wrong. If we can measure certain pollutants being output by smokestacks and can measure an increasing number of those very same pollutants throughout the rest of the atmosphere, they claim the two things must of course be disconnected, and that the increasing measured levels of pollution in the atmosphere at large must be because the invisible space turtle is farting. If we can find bones in the ground and determine via the known properties of radioactive decay that they have been there for one or two or ten million years, it is because all of the parts of science that are required to be wrong in order to reach that conclusion are, each and every one of them, coincidentally wrong, and only when applied to fossils—not less controversial things. Then that same science can be right again.

        So we've got yet another actual maker of our laws and decider of the rules of our civilization saying that the space turtle theory must be taught..."

        isn't inferring it?  The wording is disingenuous.  It's dishonest.  It's deceptive.  And it's unworthy of being called journalism.  Calling it metaphor or "a righteous riff" is cute word-play, but that's really all it is.  Hunter has a perfect right to write that way.  Absolutely.  It's just the kind of writing I expect from Fox.  I would have hoped for someone setting their sights a little higher.

        •  Steve, it isn't journalism. It wasn't intended to (10+ / 0-)

          be journalism. Editorial opinion has never been journalism, though Fox has tried its level best to blur the distinction for years now.

          The distinction, or at least what I hope is the distinction, is that the audience that Hunter is writing for knows that there is a difference, and is not going to get caught up in any attempt to conflate it with "fact".

          And no, it isn't inferring it. Only inferring that the "space turtle" scenario is just as reasonable as Intelligent Design or Creationism. That's an inference with which I would agree, actually.

          At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

          by serendipityisabitch on Fri May 16, 2014 at 04:46:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Look at the second word (0+ / 0-)

          in Hunter's statement.  The word is "can".  We CAN believe (but we don't) that the world is balanced onthe back of a turtle...  That pretty much tells me he's making a comparison, not stating a belief that Daines actually said such a thing.

          "There are times when even normal men must spit in their hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

          by rwgate on Sat May 17, 2014 at 03:31:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Belief and Political Expediency are hard to (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, serendipityisabitch

        separate in Montana. Neither have anything to do with truth.

    •  It's called "snark"... (11+ / 0-)

      and Hunter is one of the masters of snark here, appealing to the same satirically absurdist streak within many of us who likewise enjoy Monty Python, Mel Brooks, Terry Pratchett, Carl Hiaasen, Christopher Moore, Tom Sharpe et alii.

      You don't have to "get it," but railing against it and pushing some sort of equivalence between this and FOX? That's as effective as standing in a bowl of treacle going "SQWAK SQWAK SQWAK!"

      Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

      by angry marmot on Sat May 17, 2014 at 05:00:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope, I don't have to get it (0+ / 0-)

        and my objection wasn't to his opinion or even the writing.  My objection was simply to the DK publishing that writing without some kind of header or disclaimer stating exactly what the article was.  But calling it "snark" or "metaphor" or anything else instead of saying that it's opinion (humorous) but opinion is word play.  The DK published it.  The DK made no mention that it wasn't journalism.  That just means that I, and others like me, will be a whole lot less likely to treat anything else coming from the DK as reliable or journalism in the future.   .  That should only matter if the DK had any illusions of being a journalistic entity.

        •  Your concerns... (5+ / 0-)

          will be given all due consideration.

          Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

          by angry marmot on Sat May 17, 2014 at 05:45:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  What I'm not sure of is why DK (not the DK) (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DLWinMI, angry marmot, rocksout, JG in MD

          should have any illusions of being a "journalistic entity", or indeed why you would think that it was. I don't think Kos ever said it was. It's a site dedicated to electing more and better democrats, not a news site. As such, most of the diaries here are opinion pieces, not reporting.

          Many of us may come here for news in addition to opinion, but that's not from the diaries themselves, but from the links that many of them are based upon. Over the course of a day, an incredible number of different topics are discussed, and back referenced to current news.

          If you want reliable journalism, there are a whole raft of sites to choose from. If you read enough of them, you may even get some consensus as to what "the news" is for a given day.

          At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

          by serendipityisabitch on Sat May 17, 2014 at 09:49:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Flying spagetti monster (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      serendipityisabitch

      Pastafarian's know that the only true deity is the flying spaghetti monster

      Nothing wrong with Reductio ad absurdum

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