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View Diary: WaPo Breaking: US to prosecute China for Cycberspying (77 comments)

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  •  The first two links you describe (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    realnrh, OIL GUY, koNko, CenPhx, poco

    talk about the US going after military targets.  In the first one, it specifically says this:

    Last year, the agency cracked two of China’s biggest cellphone networks, allowing it to track strategically important Chinese military units
    Since I would consider tracking military units to be a legitimate function of the NSA, I would think this is something that falls under their authority.

    Now, if the NSA is stealing economic information from the Chinese, that would be an issue.  Which is what this indictment from the US against the Chinese is about.

    "Moon landing was real. Evolution exists. Tax cuts lose revenue. The research has shown this a thousand times. Enough already." - Austan Goolsbee

    by anonevent on Mon May 19, 2014 at 07:03:57 AM PDT

    •  Not china but... (7+ / 0-)

      hypocrisy nonetheless....

      http://www.reuters.com/...

      - Reports that the United States spied on Brazilian oil company Petrobras, if proven, would be tantamount to industrial espionage and have no security justification, Brazil's President Dilma Rousseff said on Monday.

      Brazil's Globo television network reported on Sunday that the U.S. National Security Agency hacked into the computer networks of Petrobras and other companies, including Google Inc., citing documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

      http://rt.com/...
      In a single year, this operation produced 260 classified reports that facilitated talks on political issues and helped the Americans plan international investments.

      "These TAO [Tailored Access Operations – an NSA division that handles missions like hacking presidential emails] accesses into several Mexican government agencies are just the beginning - we intend to go much further against this important target," the document reads. It praises the operation as a "tremendous success" and states that the divisions responsible for this surveillance are "poised for future successes."

      Economic espionage is a motive for NSA spying, which the agency vocally denied, but which appears in the previous leaks. The agency had spied on the Brazilian oil giant, Petrobras, according to earlier revelations. This combined with reports that the NSA hacked into the email of Brazilian President Dilma Rouseff, triggered a serious deterioration of relations between the two countries.

      If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

      by LieparDestin on Mon May 19, 2014 at 07:31:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So then you just justified the Chinese (4+ / 0-)

      It seems what the US is accusing them of is actually Military espionage.

      So by your reasoning, this is exactly what Chinese counter-parts of the NSA should be doing, no?

      By the way, the NSA did get caught hacking into the Central Bank of Brazil and justified it as legitimate intelligence of US national interest, so why the heck would it be wrong of any other country to do this to the USA?

      I'm not arguing 2 wrongs make a right, but you seem to be suggesting that would be wrong for China to do, so what about the USA?

      Or do you think you can have this argument both ways?

      Genuinely interested in your reasoning on this.

      No one is coming to save us, the future is in our hands.

      by koNko on Mon May 19, 2014 at 08:16:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  From the diary (0+ / 0-)
        The United States and China agreed last year to begin holding regular, high-level talks on cybersecurity and commercial espionage. But whenever U.S. officials raise the issue of economic spying, the Chinese are not receptive, administration officials said. Though Washington takes pains to distinguish between foreign intelligence gathering and spying to help a country’s own industries gain an economic advantage, officials say that is a distinction without a difference to the Chinese.
        There is a distinction between economic and military spying in my opinion.  Are there places where it could be blurry?  Sure.  But I do consider spying for the purposes of keeping the government informed of what other governments planning a necessary function of the government.

        "Moon landing was real. Evolution exists. Tax cuts lose revenue. The research has shown this a thousand times. Enough already." - Austan Goolsbee

        by anonevent on Mon May 19, 2014 at 08:43:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So the US is the decider of that? (5+ / 0-)

          If the US accuses China, it is so, but if other countries accuse the US of the same and it uses the explanation "national interest" or "national security" you accept it at face value?

          Because that is exactly what is happening.

          I don't have to cite the cases because there are now too many to reasonably mention in one comment and a couple have already been cited on this thread such as hacking the National Bank of Brazil.

          What is the distinction you make there?

          US said it was just poking around?

          But China, bad?

          This discussion is really strange. The world really seems to be heading back to a Cold War mentality. And it's being led by a Democrat this time.

          Ah, the good old days of USA vs Russia vs China.

          The spies love it, there goes another $9Bn for the NSA.

          But not for school lunches, right?

          No one is coming to save us, the future is in our hands.

          by koNko on Mon May 19, 2014 at 09:14:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, now clearly accused of military hacking (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Just Bob, CroneWit

      Original story I quoted was not clear on that, the links I have added since are more clear.

      So then ....

      Since I would consider tracking military units to be a legitimate function of the NSA, I would think this is something that falls under their authority.

      Now, if the NSA is stealing economic information from the Chinese, that would be an issue.  Which is what this indictment from the US against the Chinese is about.

      If you keep reading you will find the stories claim this intelligence was gained by NSA and NSA subcontractors doing electronic surveillance of military targets in China and accuses them of doing electronic military surveillance of US targets.

      So then, both are OK with you, right?

      Both just doing their jobs?

      Well perhaps that's the real point of all this. Perhaps the US is working on a little PR campaign to get people to go back to their knitting.

      No one is coming to save us, the future is in our hands.

      by koNko on Mon May 19, 2014 at 08:40:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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