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  •  I was not referencing those people (7+ / 0-)

    whom I have NEVER heard of prior to this.

    I am CERTAIN you know this.

    Did you really think I as specifically going out of my way to trash people I have never heard of?

    Words have various meanings.

    To me "maroon" means "loser". My whole life it meant "loser". Throwback, somebody left behind.

    I have never and am not now referring to some people I have never ever heard of and will continue to use it to mean "loser" and not as a derogatory reference this obscure, centuries-old historical group, again, whom I have never heard of. It never would have crossed my mind.

    Thanks for your understanding.

    Legal means "good".
    [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

    by xxdr zombiexx on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:26:28 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  You know, of the five people with whom I have (5+ / 0-)

      had this conversation, you are the only one who has had this response. Interesting.
      I won't say anymore about this subject in this diary but you could learn a thing or two from this response: http://www.dailykos.com/...

      Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

      by JoanMar on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:42:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I learned from it. (5+ / 0-)

        I told you I had never heard of them before.

        Even though the words are spelled exactly the same, they refer to 2 completely different things.

        You know, of the five people with whom I have had this conversation, you are the only one who has had this response.
        I'm different.

        Legal means "good".
        [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

        by xxdr zombiexx on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:52:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  count me as number 2 on your list. (7+ / 0-)

        "You know, of the five people with whom I have  
        had this conversation, you are the only one who has had this response. Interesting."

        I too have always understood the term to be a smarmy substitute for moron, and picked it up from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. interestingly, I happen to have a DVD collection of those cartoons. compared to much of early cartoons (through the mid 60's at least), the Bugs Bunny series was probably the least racist & sexist of all them.  

        up to this very moment, I'd never even heard of the group you've referenced, as being the source for the term. I'd bet money that 99.9999999% of those people who use it, have also never heard of them, they got it from good old Bugs. I've also never heard, read or seen it used as any kind of racial/sexual slur. again, I'd be willing to bet money few others have either. it just doesn't have that history.

        while your information was interesting, I just don't think your claim, that the term, in its common usage, is racist, has much merit.

        •  Does not having heard the term make it... (0+ / 0-)

          less racist and OK to use? That seems to be the argument put forward by cpinva and xxdr zombiexx.

          Is that morally equivalent to someone saying: "I didn't understand 'Redskin' referred to skinning Native people and selling the skins for bounty to the British, and instead it is respectful, to me, so I'll continue to use it"?

          Is it about the same as saying: "I didn't mean to use 'nigger' in an offensive way, I was just using it with my homie?"

          It is alright to not know something is offensive, but when you find out it is deeply offensive to someone (in this case, living, currently existing, cultural communities in the US and elsewhere), to insist that you have the right to use the term however you like?

          Native people, and mixed-race people, have been facing this particular battle for a long time. Even some self-professed liberals from the Appalachians think it is OK to use terms like "Melungeon" in every day language. Many self-professed progressives claim they "just don't understand" why many Native people can't stand the use of Redskin or Braves as team names. I would think Daily Kos users would be a little less tone-deaf and a little more understanding of the nuances of racism.

    •  I read it your way (4+ / 0-)

      and then I read it Joan's.

      Honestly, it isn't worth getting in a tussle over here.

    •  I don't understand your hostility here (7+ / 0-)

      JoanMar was just politely asking that you refrain from using that term in the future for obvious reasons. I used to use the term as well. Heck, there's a lot of terms and sayings I've given up after someone has told me how what I am saying is disrespectful or hurtful. What is so hard about saying, "Oh, I didn't know that" and just move on, not using it in the future. There's a ton of stuff in our culture that has very messed up roots. That's just part of our heritage.

      Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

      by moviemeister76 on Tue May 20, 2014 at 10:48:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I believe the point Doc is making is that the word (9+ / 0-)

        maroon is a homonym.  It has multiple meanings with the same spelling and pronunciation.  Maroon can mean a color, a stranding at sea, noble though obscure freedom fighters, or an idiot.  And all of them are legitimate uses.  Doc does not mean the color, the stranding, the nobles freedom fighters, but rather a well known and understood use.  The meanings are all discrete.  In other words he was referring to Bugs Bunny's malapropism and that is clear.  

        My sisters name is Gay.  Born in 1948.  Her name became a homonym in her lifetime.  Words have meaning.  Some words have many different meanings.  Maroon is one of them.

        John, Dick and Lou are homonyms. What can you do.  Homonyms happen.

        There is an endless supply of white men, there has always been a limited number of Human Beings

        by ratprique on Wed May 21, 2014 at 12:21:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your argument is odd (0+ / 0-)

          You're essentially saying that since Bugs Bunny said it, it couldn't possibly have any historically bigoted connotations. And that's a weird argument to make.

          Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

          by moviemeister76 on Wed May 21, 2014 at 12:05:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Darmok, WednesdaysChilde

            I thought my argument is pretty solid actually.  In my experience (63 years and counting) I have never heard of the Maroons (nor had Doc), nor had ever experienced the use of the word maroon used as a pejorative, other than the denotation inspired by Bugs.  The word has multiple meanings, and the meaning Doc selected was the correct, appropriate and well understood meaning.

            Now if you can cite where the word maroon has been used in a racist and bigoted manner I will add that meaning to its several others but I can't see the sin in using a word when it's use is clearly not intended to be bigoted, and in reality is not.

            Is that clear?

            There is an endless supply of white men, there has always been a limited number of Human Beings

            by ratprique on Wed May 21, 2014 at 01:03:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So your not hearing it (0+ / 0-)

              means that it can't possibly be construed as offensive? That is a very strange argument to make.

              Think about the implications of that for a moment. Isn't this the standard excuse people have used in the South for 'Nigger?'

              "I thought it was descriptive. Those people are black. Used to be called Negros. We pronounce it Niggers. Therefore, since I started using the word when I didn't know it was anything other than descriptive of color, I'll continue to use it, even though I now know it offends people. And you shouldn't ask me not to!"

              •  If you can demonstrate anywhere the word (0+ / 0-)

                Maroon was used in such a brutal and bigoted manner  I may reconsider. But I don't think you can.

                And more importantly, in your absurd example, there is only one meaning of the word nigger.  It is not a homonym with multiple meanings.  Coon is and has very appropriate uses.  I will refer to the varmint with the Lone Ranger mask as a coon, and the dog that tracks him as a coonhound.  It has another colloquial meaning and I would never use the word in that hateful bigoted sense.  And no one has used the homonym maroon in the hateful bigoted sense that you imagine though can not document.

                So again, the meaning of the homonym maroon was used in a perfectly appropriate manner that was completely understood by the audience.  If you heard something hateful and bigoted I suggest you check yourself, not the good doctor.

                There is an endless supply of white men, there has always been a limited number of Human Beings

                by ratprique on Fri May 30, 2014 at 12:18:50 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  that is because its not hostile (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Darmok, SilentBrook, WednesdaysChilde

        it is mere disagreement.

        Legal means "good".
        [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed May 21, 2014 at 03:11:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No it was hostile (0+ / 0-)

          It has been established for years that words written in all caps on the internet indicates shouting. And shouting at someone is hostile.

          Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

          by moviemeister76 on Wed May 21, 2014 at 11:30:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You know what else is hostile? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WednesdaysChilde

            Ignoring someone's explanation just so that you can tell them what they REALLY meant by their comment.

            Or assuming that all caps necessarily means "shouting" as opposed to "a point of emphasis."

            •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WRCousCous

              Because there obviously hasn't been decades of white people saying shit that they had no clue was racist as hell.

              And the reason I "assume" that call caps is shouting is because it was readily established more than a decade ago that it was shouting.

              Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

              by moviemeister76 on Wed May 21, 2014 at 12:03:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Established" may not mean what you think (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                xxdr zombiexx, WednesdaysChilde

                It requires some actual evidence "establishing" whatever point.  Like, something that "establishes" that Bugs Buggy's use of "maroon" was in any way related to Central or South American slaves.  And no, pointing to JoanMar's belief of the same doesn't count as evidence.  Someone who sees racism in just about every aspect of life isn't the most persuasive of sources, for that matter.

                Likewise, "establishing" that use of all caps for a single word in a sentence means "shouting" as opposed to "emphasis" would require citation to some authority - any authority.  Besides which, it would still be hostile/rude to tell someone that their comment was intended to be hostile when they've disavowed any such intent.

          •  It was not hostile. You are wrong. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WednesdaysChilde, Darmok

            I don't care, either, what you consider a couple of capitalized words. They are for emphasis.

            On the other hand, if you want hostile, I am capable of providing you fine examples.

            Legal means "good".
            [41984 | Feb 4, 2005]

            by xxdr zombiexx on Wed May 21, 2014 at 03:21:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Wait! Isn't this the exact trouble with dumbing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WRCousCous

      down America... that people begin to shrug and use, "I've never heard of that" as an excuse to keep right on inappropriately insulting people?  Most of us keep upgrading our knowledge, and when something new is pointed out to us, we adapt.

      Do you really know a lot of black history, Sir?  If not, it's understandable that you would not have heard of the people reported here by JoanMar.  What's NOT understandable is for you, with full knowledge now, to declare that you will ignore it and continue with your insults.

      I was raised with ethnic and racial slurs as well, and until I was a teenager I never "heard" them in that way.  My birth family were kind people, only repeating slang they had learned as children and teens.  But the day the civil rights marches started, my mother said to all of us:  "These are bad words and hurt people who have not hurt us.  We didn't mean anything by them, but after today with the water canons and the police dogs we KNOW what they mean and I don't want to hear any of those words in this house again."  That's an example of when we know better we should do better.  Just saying.

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