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View Diary: Could The Great Stone Wall Of Catholicism Be Cracking? (37 comments)

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  •  Pope (4+ / 0-)
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    blueoasis, gffish, Bronx59, Jay C

    I'm Jewish, so I'll ask the question--Doesn't the Pope have the right==the power--to change doctrine?  Isn't he the most powerful of all leaders?  He talks a  good talk, he hasn't done much walking.  Has he decided to re-allow clerics to run for political office?  That would be an important first step.  Anyone remember Father Drinin (spelling is wrong)?  Remember when catholic clerics were the strongest force for change in Latin America?  

    Actions speak louder than petitions.

    by melvynny on Sun May 25, 2014 at 04:31:23 PM PDT

    •  Papal infability (7+ / 0-)

      was a relatively recent concoction by I think Pius IX in the 19th C. While it hasn't been denounced, nobody has felt able to use it in a long time. Usually the way that basic doctrinal changes come about is with a church council such as Vatican II.

      •  The "II" in "Vativan II" is telling. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        melvynny, Ahianne

        It was only the second Vatican Council in the history of the church. The first was held in 1868, convened by Pius IX. The council developed responses to modernism, rationalism and the rapid social changes in modern industrial societies with secular governments. The doctrine of Papal infallibility was defined and codified thusly:

        The dogmatic constitution states that the Pope has "full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church" (chapter 3:9); and that, when he "speaks ex cathedra, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals" (chapter 4:9).
        325 years before Vatican I, the Council of Trent was held in response to the Protestant Reformation. About twenty Lateran and Ecumenical councils have been held since the year 50 CE. Most of the early ones hammered out compromises between the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Roman Church in the west.

        These earlier councils were called in response to overwhelming outside pressures and crises. Most of the early councils were called by Emperors. The first and second Vatican Councils were unique in that the Popes personally called for them and used their decrees to put their own stamp on Church doctrine.

        I started with nothing and still have most of it left. - Seasick Steve

        by ruleoflaw on Sun May 25, 2014 at 07:03:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The problem for the Church is that its (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bronx59, Rashaverak

      theology on women and on marriage is bound up in set of assumptions that aren't going to be easy to reverse.  It's not like repealing a law.  It's more like rewriting an article of the Constitution.  So they are going to need some brilliant and creative theologians to figure out how to unravel this and the spirit does not seem to have moved any to do so just yet!

      •  Maybe they could arrange an appearence (4+ / 0-)

        by the BVM saying unto the assembled host...

        It's time to put a stop to this sexist crap!


      •  The Church decided, contrary to Scripture (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        melvynny, ssgbryan, skrekk

        and after more than a thousand years, that they could forbid priests to marry, with much more severe penalties than for having a mistress. For example, in the twelfth century wives and children of married priests were to be taken away and enslaved, in addition to .

        Centuries later, they could decide that the Earth orbiting the Sun was heresy, and within a century after, that it was not.

        So they can, in fact, decide anything that they want to badly enough. It's all magical thinking, untethered to any facts, and especially not tethered to anything Jesus or the Apostles supposedly said, much of which we know to be made up.

        The problem for the Church is that they have been too successful in their missionary work, and that Catholics in Asia and Africa are often far behind Church members in Europe and the Americas in matters related to sex, marriage, and family planning.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Sun May 25, 2014 at 07:28:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I wonder if two "innovations" might help. (1+ / 0-)
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        One is a more extensive and spiritually/intellectually honest examination of scripture, to uncover where church doctrine is in error. The other is (get ready to duck and cover) an equally extensive and spiritually/intellectually honest search outside of church doctrine and scripture...

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