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View Diary: Bowe Bergdahl: "We Don't Even Care... About Running Their Children Down in the Dirt Streets" (208 comments)

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  •  Insightful. (14+ / 0-)

    Personally, I believe that both Manning & Snowden were/are guilty of crimes, but not Bergdahl.

    Manning went outside his chain of command and leaked information.  Manning could have accomplished his goal without his very public leaks.  Also, Manning leaked a treasure trove of information with a disregard for others who may have been placed into harms way because of his leaked information.  Would those who defend Manning be OK if the leaked data was nuclear launch codes.  I sympathize with Manning's objective, but I still believe he committed crimes that needed punishment.  I am aware others will disagree.

    Snowden is quite similar to Manning, but far less sympathetic.  OK, I admit that operation Prism (metadata collection) has now been changed because of Snowden's leaks.  But the remaining data he collected is quite possibly even more dangerous (not merely embarrassing) in the hands of our enemies and economic competitors.  Snowdens actions, in my opinion, did more harm than good.  Moreover, the recent revelations that he was trained as a spy seem to be conceited deceit, not an actual fact.  Finally, I would like to see Snowden's e-mails that he claims he sent to whomever regarding his outlining that crimes were being committed by the NSA.

    Bergdahl was a soldier under stress.  Granted, if he deserted, he may have placed those in search teams needlessly into  harms way.  But even a soldier who makes a wrong turn at a forked road can initiate that same problem.  In other words, it is very rare that a soldier is courtmartialed for being stupid or doing a stupid thing.  That's why even soldiers guilty of pulling the trigger in a friendly fire incident are not held accountable.  Soldiers in forward positions are often excused for stress related actions.    

    Bergdahl is guilty of two things:  1.) his name looks like Benghazi to the people who watch Fox News, and 2.) his safe return home is a political win for President Obama, and republicans will have none of that.

    •  Bergdahl's prime stress was being ordered (18+ / 0-)

      to cover up the MRAP child-killing incident.

      That unit was out of control. Not under competent leadership.

      "Stealing kids' lunch money makes them strong and independent." -- after Paul "False Prophet" Ryan

      by waterstreet2013 on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 08:16:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am not aware of a cover-up, but (5+ / 0-)

        the death of the child certainly played into his tress.

        I understand that there is no report of the child's death, but that does not mean there was a cover-up.

        Civilian casualties are a problem of war.  I do not believe all civilian deaths are reported  by our military.

        And I agree that the comments from Bergdahl about those in command of his platoon are troubling, but I cannot comment on matters for which the military will have to investigate further and provide far more damning information.

        In other words, I m not willing to claim cover-up, or bad commanders, any more than I accept that Bergdahl deserted his unit.

        The totality of the facts and circumstances will have to be reviewed by those who understand these things better than an armchair blogger like you or I.

        •  The absence of an Incident Report (11+ / 0-)

          speaks for itself.

          Kill a civilian. Go silent. After the incident is reported to unit officers.

          Yeah, that's a UCMJ felony on its own. And that's likely the motive behind this Republican swiftboating exercise aimed at Bergdahl: they fear the Fundie Christians abandoning their calls for more and more war.

          "Stealing kids' lunch money makes them strong and independent." -- after Paul "False Prophet" Ryan

          by waterstreet2013 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 04:20:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You do not know that. (6+ / 0-)

            Private Manning leaked many of the same type of incident reports that you claim do not exist.

            We do not know if Private Bergdahl knew everything about every incident report that was filed and subsequently  'classified'.

            You are making an assumption that neither of us can confirm.

            Do not misunderstand me - I would prefer a more open military.  But the very code of justice that Sgt. Bergdahl must face is the same court that will likely find he did not desert his unit, but rather he made a mistake that got him captured.

            You cannot have it both ways - if you are appalled at a potential cover-up of a civilian death that goes unpunished, then you should be screaming at the top of your lungs for Sgt. Bergdahl to be courtmartialed for desertion.  After all, you want a strict interpretation of each and every violation of military code of conduct.

            Neither of us knows what resulted in the death of that child.  While I cannot condone the laughing after the fact, it may well have been a tragic traffic accident akin to the thousands that occur and go without prosecution on our own shores.  Again, you are making assumptions about what happened based on an e-mail sent by a very distraught individual.    

            •  There is no Incident Report. Period. (5+ / 0-)

              We know the names of the American participants, the date, location, unit information, some witness info. Getting the rest of the info to generate a replicated Incident Report is underway.

              "No Incident Report." A simple, easily verified fact. For the officers involved in the cover-up, a simple crime.

              "FromRedToBlue" does know what a fact is. Pro Republicans, not so much.

              "Stealing kids' lunch money makes them strong and independent." -- after Paul "False Prophet" Ryan

              by waterstreet2013 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 06:01:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'll repeat myself. (4+ / 0-)

                Incident reports get classified (for both known and unknown reasons).

                Whether you or I like it, many of these classified incident reports relate to both accidental and intentional civilian casualties and deaths.

                Private Manning showed this with his leaks.  He did not release one incident report about an airstrike in 2007, but more than 500,000 documents similar in nature.  Although, that Baghdad airstrike was the catalyst for the Manning leaks… a child being crushed by a military vehicle in the case of Private Bergdahl was the catalyst for his alleged desertion.

                In other words, I have facts on my side to confirm the existence of classified reports that are 'on-point' to very topic of NOT ALL INCIDENT REPORTS BECOME PUBLIC.

                You are claiming to know what reports exist and which may or not be classified.  Moreover, your only 'knowledge' of an incident report not being filed comes from Private Bergdahl, a soldier who would not likely have been involved in either the creation or filing of such a report.

                So for the last time, you cannot verify the existence or nonexistence of a classified report.

    •  I think his "guilt", (12+ / 0-)

      besides the ODS going on, has become largely motivated by the very things that are highlighted in this diary.  It's become known that he saw the Afghans as people and was distressed at what Americans were doing to them.  That all but is treason to that crowd, even outside a war zone.

      It's hard not to see him as a sympathetic character based on his writings, and on the presumption of simple desertion.  But the right wingers won't see it that way.

    •  Snowdon DIDN'T leak nuclear launch codes ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      And working INSIDE his chain of command, absolutely nothing would have happened -- except him joining the "Long Term Unemployed."

      But on the other hand ... WE would all have been spared knowledge of unpleasant facts about which we can do nothing, anyway.

      Sane, smart people do NOT become Whistle Blowers or  ....  I dunno ... actually I couldn't come up with a high risk, low reward activity which WASN'T either smarter and/or saner than Whistle Blowing.

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