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View Diary: Pennsylvania house approves 'In God We Trust' motto for schools (119 comments)

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  •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greenbell

    This is what we have come to?  Those that believe in God are to be mocked and dismissed?  Really?  

    How does one expect the win the electorate when one dismisses their beliefs?

    There is no divide between Christian values and Democrat values.  Umm Pope Francis...

    What the heck are we doing?

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 10:18:52 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  "Democrat values" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wilderness voice, Aquarius40

      Okay, then.

    •  Christiantists aren't Christians (8+ / 0-)

      Oh sure, they claim to be Christians. Christians who believe in the rights of the rich to plunder, rape, and pillage. Christians who think "an eye for an eye" is still a pretty good idea, after all turning the other cheek is for losers and wimps.

      Don't complain about mocking Christianists because they're doing more harm to Christianity than a snarky blog post will ever do.

      GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

      by ontheleftcoast on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 10:34:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why in the world would you point (0+ / 0-)

      to Pope Francis when talking about Democrat values unless you have conveniently forgotten about his and the RCC's treatment of women!

      •  Guess you've missed (0+ / 0-)

        all the posts on this site that have welcomed his new perspective and inclusive approach to healing the past and setting the stage for the future for Catholics and Christians.

        Get a clue.   If you haven't noticed, it isn't Catholics and Christians that are significantly mis-treating women.  It's those other guys, you know, the ones that won't let them drive cars.  genitally mutilate them,  "honor kill them", etc.  etc.

        But you won't talk about that will you?  Because then the blessed community moderators would f u up as an evil proponent of religious bias and hatred.

        Catholics, Christians, fair game.  Feel safe in the bubble that is DKos.  Fire away..

        "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

        by EdMass on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 11:10:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How many women has the Catholic church (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skrekk, cai, gffish, jessbell911

          killed because they won't allow abortions, even in cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother. I know of a couple of famous cases in just the last few years. But do go on about how religious extremism is only for "other religions". Or how about when the Catholic and Mormon churches worked together to pass Prop H8 in California?

          And yet I will still applaud the Catholic church when Pope Francis speaks out on inequality and social injustice in the world. I can look at the whole picture and see there is some good to be celebrated and problems that have to be dealt with.

          You should consider the same about Islam, or does the fact they make caring for the poor one of their fundamental pillars of faith not appeal to you? You focus on the tribalism aspects of Islam that existed in those areas before Islam came and condemn the whole faith. And yes, those practices are horrible, but they are not the sum total of Islam and you should know better.

          GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

          by ontheleftcoast on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 11:34:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Until both libera/moderate catholics (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mxwll

            and muslims walk out the doors of their religious institutions and disavow their founding texts, they are tied at the hip to the fundamentalists in both camps and thus to their actions and the actions of their institutions.  I do not let them off the hook for any of it.  

            I will not applaud anything Pope Francis says on social justice or any other topic.  He has no moral basis to even discuss inequality and social justice as long as women are held in second class status in the world because of his church's policies.

            •  And I don't think throwing the baby out with (0+ / 0-)

              the bath water is the best way forward. Look at our own damn party and the problems it has. Do you seriously recommend every progressive pick up and leave the party because the Democrats aren't good enough? If so you need to re-think why your here at DK. And for religions you're asking people to abandon all the cultural ties, family ties, etc. that have bound them together for centuries just to make a point? Sorry, but you fail to understand the complexity of the issues. Nice sound bite you have, but a lousy plan of action.

              GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

              by ontheleftcoast on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 02:11:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Dirty bath water isn't good for baby (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Fishtroller01

                ...and neither is the insidious tradition of religious superstition that has diseased civilizations for thousands of years.

                How pathetic it is to gag up a throw-away phrase as if it contributes anything meaningful.

                If you want your baby to survive in good health, throw the damned dirty bath water out and quit telling everybody how rotten it is for them to imagine a world that isn't chronically infested by a tradition of superstition.

                You tie cultural and family values inextricably to religion. I have Good News (TM) for you! Religious superstition doesn't own those human virtues. Religion has no monopoly on human virtue and goodness. Religion is NOT the necessary life-kit you think it is. Get the picture?

                •  And you completely misread my comment (0+ / 0-)

                  I didn't say cultural and family are only available thru religion but you'd have to be a pretty colossal liar to say they weren't heavily influenced by it.

                  Sure, crap all over religion if you want. Hell, there's ample evidence for doing so.

                  And when you're part of a tiny, bitter minority wondering why nobody wants to work with you to solve big problems maybe you can reconsider your approach.

                  GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

                  by ontheleftcoast on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 10:36:36 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The lie is certainly "colossal"! (0+ / 0-)

                    I did not 'misread' your comment. I responded to it because I understood it.

                    How dare you insinuate that my comment in any way suggested that religion doesn't heavily influence culture.

                    What the hell is the matter with you?

                    Are you accustomed to being a liar?

                    Your response? I hear you loud and clear. And I read sincere bullshit.

                    I clearly read you crapping on people who have the temerity of exercising an opinion contrary to yours, and you get all agitated and have a cow.

                    You seem peculiarly split. You knock at me for crapping on religion, yet you allow that there is ample evidence for doing so. WTF? Are you nuts too?

                    Let me tell you something. When YOU inevitably become part of that tiresome and thankfully dwindling tiny minority of apologists devoted to propping up the incredible superstitious nonsense façade that is religion that has not ever in the slightest advanced the cause of human progress and enlightenment, and has not after thousands of years yielded the slightest clue to people just like you to quit acting like assholes toward each other, I will happily stand strong amongst the growing number of like-minded people who are sick and tired of people JUST LIKE YOU who think they have a premium AUTHORITY over what people ought to think.

                    And I'll tell you right in your face here and now, your response is an obnoxious bastardization of what constitutes decent human behavior, pal, and you are perfectly free to mischaracterize my response as the 'bitter' outcome of a very very small and ultimately inconsequential mind.

                    •  Nice to see you can quote Dawkins (0+ / 0-)

                      Did you just finish reading The God Delusion last week?

                      People like you used to make me embarrassed to be an atheist. But then I remember you're just an embarrassment with or without atheism in the mix. Have fun being bitter and resentful, it's obviously what you're good at.

                      GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say "a media circus" has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that "both sides are to blame" and hope the public will stay home on election day.

                      by ontheleftcoast on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 08:41:29 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  It seems to me having observed the recent (0+ / 0-)

                sea change in attitudes about gays and gay marriage that it is a perfectly reasonable hope that religious people walk out the door.  Having been a Christian who walked out the door and into atheism, I can tell you that most family ties stay just as tight.   Yes, issues in religion ARE complex, but walking out the door is pretty simple actually and millions do it every day.

                I never said a word about progressive Dems and their relationship to the party, but I certainly am one who still feels that its OK to give the party a hard time when it deserves it.

          •  How 'bout excommunicating the mother and (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ontheleftcoast, jessbell911

            the doctors who gave a nine-year-old -- a nine-year-old -- an abortion, after she'd been raped by her stepfather and was pregnant with twins, but not the stepfather?  When labor could have killed her?  And she was nine years old?

            And only didn't excommunicate the nine-year-old because she was nine years old?

            Ok, fine, I don't think excommunication does diddly, since it's not my religion.  But for believers, excommunication means they are forever cast out, they cannot be redeemed, they will go to hell and suffer forever.

            It was also Vatican policy to tell child victims of priest rape that if they told anyone they'd be excommunicated.  They were threatening children with eternal damnation for telling anyone -- a parent, a cop, a therapist, a sibling.  And this wasn't centuries ago.  This was in the late 20th century.

            © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

            by cai on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 09:52:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I haven't miss many of those welcoming (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nosleep4u, jessbell911

          Pope Francis diaries. They make me sick. Anyone who thinks that this new Pope is anything new needs to do some real homework or at the very least pull the curtain back!

          And if you don't think the RCC is responsible for the deaths of women through its policies against birth control and abortion, then you need some new reading glasses.  Right now there is a woman who almost died from those policies in TX at one of the catholic owned hospitals and another who is suing a similar hospital in MI and naming the US Bishops conference in the lawsuit.   World wide, women die every day in poverty because the church does all it can to prevent them from being able to control their fertility. They just uncovered 800 bodies of babies and children who suffered from the "love" of the RCC in Ireland.  

          "Healing the past and setting the stage for future Catholics and Christians"?  Right. Have you ever heard of PT Barnum? I have little patience for people who appear to know nothing about this institution, what it has done throughout history to millions of lives and what it still does to people everyday through its religious tenets and its medieval theologies and lies.

          I'd be glad to talk about the women being f-ed up by the followers of Islam if such a diary was written addressing it. Maybe if someone would post a writing by Sam Harris on the topic, we could get down to some real discussion on that topic.

          In the meantime, you might want to re-evaluate your defense of the RCC and the pope.  You are doing nothing more than setting yourself up for a fall.

        •  In a bubble? (0+ / 0-)

          Look around you.

          People who check "None" for their religious affiliation are now nearly one in five Americans (19%), the highest ever documented, according to the Pew Center for the People and the Press. The rapid rise of Nones — including atheists, agnostics and those who say they believe "nothing in particular" — defies the usually glacial rate of change in spiritual identity....

          Kosmin's surveys were the first to brand the Nones in 1990 when they were 6% of U.S. adults. By 2008 survey, Nones were up to 15%. By 2010, another survey, the bi-annual General Social Survey, bumped the number to 18%. Meanwhile, the Roman Catholic Church, the nation's largest religious denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention, Methodists and Lutherans, all show membership flat or inching downward, according to the 2012 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches. [source]

          This is eerily like the situation in Canada in the mid-1960, when universal health insurance was introduced. In the following half-century, religion in Canada disintegrated, with even religious leaders agreeing on the term "post-Christian" to describe the situation.

          Instead of detached from reality, those here who criticize god-botherers are simply a bit ahead of the times.

          This is the landscape that we understand, -
          And till the principle of things takes root,
          How shall examples move us from our calm?

          (Mary Oliver, "Beyond the Snow Belt.")

          by sagesource on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 02:43:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  bit of a quibble but shouldn't that line be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wilderness voice

      "There is no divide between Christian values and Democratic values"
      instead of "There is no divide between Christian values and Democrat values"?

    •  It's not about faith (7+ / 0-)

      This sort of thing is about conformity. It's about enforcing a civic religion.

      “Oh, c’mon,” they say. “‘In God We Trust’ is just a motto. It’s vague. It’s not endorsement.”

      Two breaths later they’ll tell you the USA is a Christian nation, (like Saudi Arabia but with the right god). “Look: says ‘In God We Trust’ right on our money.”

      If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

      by Major Kong on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 11:16:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wilderness voice, awkvard, nosleep4u

      Since you are conflating Democratic values with your Christian values, and thus ignoring all the Democrats who do not share your Christian values, all I can say is that you apparently don't understand Democratic values.

      "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

      by Old Left Good Left on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 11:34:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Believe whatever you want, Ed (6+ / 0-)

      But whenever sky being followers push their religion down the throats of our kids, those who do not care to have our children brainwashed will fight back.

    •  I am a Christian and am getting very tired (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skrekk, Gardener in PA, cai

      Of this forced religion crap every GOP representative tries to come up with on a daily basis. Christians will lose more members because of it then Democrats will lose due to making fun of the GOP's national religion.  

      Where are the Democrats though saying I thought they were for small government??? While focusing on Woman's healthcare, religion and the like.

    •  It's not about dismissing anyone's beliefs (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cai, awkvard, jessbell911

      It's about my tax dollars going to prop up your religion. I'm an atheist, I don't endorse any religion, how am I supposed to feel when my government proclaims that I trust in God?

    •  Yes, this is what we have come to (0+ / 0-)

      Those that believe in God are to be mocked and dismissed?  Really?

      Yes. Really.

      In case it hasn't yet been explained to you, superstition is anathema to democracy which must operate under the broad daylight of reality.

      Democracy can't be faked.

    •  A Christianist is not a Christian. (0+ / 0-)

      A Christianist wants Christianity to be considered the national religion, and will try to change laws to force their own religion onto others who do not share it.

      A Christian knows about God and Caesar and doesn't get them mixed up.

      © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

      by cai on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 09:36:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No true scotsman fallacy there. Christianists, (0+ / 0-)

        including the Westboro Baptist Church, are every bit as Christian as you are.

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 11:44:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am not a Christian. n/t (0+ / 0-)

          © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

          by cai on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 11:50:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  P.S. -- Me aside, the point is, Christianists are (0+ / 0-)

          one kind of Christian -- the kind who want to force everyone else to abide by their particular brand of Christianity (the intolerant, woman-hating kind) through our supposedly secular government.

          The point isn't that they're not Christian, but that we're distinguishing them from the varieties of Christian that aren't doing that.  Kind of like the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist -- which is, I'm sure, how the term Christianist came about.

          © cai Visit 350.org to join the fight against global warming.

          by cai on Thu Jun 05, 2014 at 11:53:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that basically ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cai

        Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that basically the same premise as the Dominionist movement? I remembered when Rachel Maddow did a story on it a couple years ago. Truly scary stuff for people like us who believe in separation of church and state. That line has been crossed way too many times in the past 30 odd years.

    •  God is a concept by which we measure our pain(eom) (0+ / 0-)

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