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View Diary: Solar Roadways: A proposition (110 comments)

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  •  "It becomes cheap..." (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SCFrog, koseighty, Scott in NAZ

    Is a cop out.  At the very least, there should be a back of the envelope calculation of anticipated production and maintenance costs over volume and time.  There is none.

    But that's not the real pain in the neck.  Unless I'm missing some very relevant documentation somewhere, I've yet to see anything explaining how Solar FREAKIN' Roadways (which I apparently need to get behind cuz YOUTUBE)

    1. increases EV range,
    2. decreases snow removal cost, and
    3. provides any quantifiable advantage in absence of 1) and 2) over placing PVs damn near anywhere else.

    Deal with these three issues, and then we can talk about Nth order considerations like the (dis)advantages of transmitting power and signal over trampled surfaces as opposed to suspended wire.

    •  well there is--just not in that video. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VirginiaJeff

      THere isn't one in this link either--but it is a bit more professional (that one's just the popular-appeal video).

      Read the comments too:

      Wash Po

      both support and skepticism.

    •  This is super easy (0+ / 0-)

      1: Mutual induction plates. I'm not entirely sold on the buggers either, but I consider increasing EV range to be a bonus or a perk, not a feature.

      2: If you keep the hexagons heated above freezing, they tend to melt snow. A demonstration was made in Idaho of all places using their sample parking lot. It gets pretty chilly up there.

      3: I'd recommend watching the video again.

      •  Numbers (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        koseighty

        1. If charging EVs is not a primary feature, then why bother with roadways at all? Again, this is where numbers are helpful.  Your EV is going to burn so many kilowatt hours over a certain range.  At the very least, SR should be able to tell us anticipated power delivered per panel and let us work it out.

        2. Where does the heat come from?  What's the heat load per panel?  

        3. I've watched this video over ten times now.  I'm still asking the same questions.

    •  These are good questions (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Le Champignon, Namazga III

      and are easily answered:

      increases EV range

      Volvo is working with the Swedish Transport Association to turn a stretch of roadway in the city of Gothenburg into a rolling battery charger that would be used by specially equipped electric buses for recharging. The concept could someday help eliminate the "range anxiety" that electric vehicle owners suffer due to the limited capacity of today's batteries.

      Volvo is pairing up with the Swedish Transport Association to create short stretches of electrified roadway in Gothenburg, the Scandinavian country's second-largest city. Using a concept called inductive charging — essentially, what's used to wirelessly charge many electric razors and toothbrushes — specially designed city buses would simply have to drive along dedicated portions of pavement to partially replenish their batteries.

      "Vehicles capable of being charged directly from the road during operation could become the next pioneering step in the development towards reduced environmental impact," said Niklas Gustavsson, executive vice president of corporate sustainability for the Volvo Group.

      Decreases snow removal cost:

      well, you know, the temperature of the ice at the very bottom of the Greenland ice sheet is very close to freezing (even though the top is -30F)  This is because the earth is constantly emitting a low amount of heat.

      so placing heaters on the surfaces of the roadways will maintain the very large substrate mass at a temperature slightly above freezing.  This mass will easily melt any snowfall (even the most intense blizzard won't produce snow that sticks if it is the first storm of the year).

      Looking at the energy requirements it would take about 1.5 watts per square meter to maintain this temperature.  This will save billions of dollars on salt and plowing alone, (plus trillions of dollars over 20 years in salt-corrosion damage and traffic accidents)

      so, yeah this technology already exists and is a really good idea if you can install heaters on roadways cost effectively (like we can't with asphalt).

      http://utopianist.com/...

      As far as putting PVs anywhere else,

      why would you want to not also put PVs everywhere else?

      Be the change that you want to see in the world

      by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 12:34:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why not cover the entire US with solar panels? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LakeSuperior, koseighty

        Come on.  That's just ridiculous, especially since the total amount of area necessary to generate more than ten times the power we presently consume is negligible compared to the total surface area of the United Staets.

        I asked you this before you and you left the conversation before answering completely.  Where does the heat come from?  You last left off with this vaguely defined heat pump.  Sure, you can heat 3 acres of impervious downtown surface for $3 million, but you still need the coal-fired power plant to reject heat in the first place.  Needless to say, that system scaled up naively and linearly to 8e10 square meters is around $16 trillion in and of itself.  How much you want to bet it'd be cheaper just to get a bunch of EV snow plows?

        •  wow, (0+ / 0-)

          I thought that you were asking a rhetorical questions.

          I already told you that they were electric heaters, while the snow is falling at night, the heaters are connected to the regular electric grid, of course.

          This will generate electricity while AT THE SAME TIME being a road.

          just like putting solar panels on your roof generates electricity AND keeps the rain off of your dinner.

          quit being such a silly boo bird!

          Be the change that you want to see in the world

          by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 01:00:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  at this point I realize that you are (0+ / 0-)

            simply attacking the technology with any thing that you can come up with, including overt exaggeration and falsehood.  I don't discuss these things with people who are arguing from an agenda.

            The technology is being developed to create permanent roads that generate electricity, are much safer to drive on AND they generate electricity.

            that is all you need to know for now.

            so go back to studying your heat transfer and fluid flow texts, you are behind. . .

            Be the change that you want to see in the world

            by New Minas on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 01:04:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Long ago it was covered by solar panels. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koseighty, elfling

          Natural ones using chlorophyll.

          warning: snark probably above

          by NE2 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 06:18:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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